Question about Dread Familiars

[Hell_Born]

Just a question that's been gnawing at me for a while. I know that a Paladin's Steed eventually gains the Mist descriptor in Ravenloft, which means it can never leave the Demiplane, but seeing as Dread Familiars are born from the Mists, I just want to know if they can accompany their mage beyond the Demiplane, if a wizard leaves Ravenloft, can his Dread Familiar come with him or does it have to stay?

On a related topic, one of my players plays a Neutral Evil Conjurer and has a real fondness for summoning Corrupted Elementals (by which I mean Grave, Mist, Blood and Pyre Elelmentals, I can't remember what they're really called collectively). We recently moved the player group from Ravenloft to the Forgotten Realms (Don't Ask!), and the Conjurer isn't too happy to only be able to summon plain old vanilla Elelmentals. What I want to know is, is there a way to modify spells that summon regular Elelmentals so they summon Corrupted Elelmentals instead? I'd figured that the initial spell would probably require the designer know about Ravenloft and the corruption it can cause, but I'm just asking how to set it up.

[Igor the Henchman]

I would rule that, being a product of the demiplane, a dread familiar is incapable of leaving Ravenloft, but you can rule otherwise.

As for Dread Elementals, since those exist only in Ravenloft, you're stuck with the problem of bringing them from there... which equals to trespassing one of Ravenloft's laws, that is, no easy escape for anyone. I guess summoning dread elementals outside of Ravenloft is only possible if you're on a Masque world. Even if you allow it in other settings, the conjurer can't twist around having to use the Mists of Ravenloft at some point of the summoning, process, with all the risks that it entails. The most obvious solution is having him roll a Powers Check each time he uses the spell. Fail, and its back into the Misty Realms for ya.

[Hell_Born]

That's pretty much what I was thinking, to summon a Dread Elelmental the wizard must naturally call up the Mists of Ravenloft to corrupt them, so I would have put that there's a risk of being sent to the Demiplane of Dread when the spell is cast in anyway. Speaking of the Mists, do you think that its possible that a mage who spends a long time in Ravenloft, gets used to the way magic works there, gains some levels in Knowledge (Ravenloft) then makes it to another plane might figure out how to utlise the rules of Ravenloft to affect his magic in other planes?

[Igor the Henchman]

Speaking of the Mists, do you think that its possible that a mage who spends a long time in Ravenloft, gets used to the way magic works there, gains some levels in Knowledge (Ravenloft) then makes it to another plane might figure out how to utlise the rules of Ravenloft to affect his magic in other planes?

Sounds like something Imhotep from MotRD might have done... Has done, actually. The results weren't good.

[Hell_Born]

On a side note, if a Dread Familiar does accompany its master to a new plane, what might happen to it? Would there be a possibility of it getting weaker or frailer, devoid of the aura of Ravenloft? To say nothing of what it's going to do to it's master's reputation; whilst the pranks and mischeif of Dread Familiars is well known amongst the people of Ravenloft, being one of the reasons mages are so unpopular, on a new plane the idea of a familiar with a bond like that possessed by a Dread Familiar is unheard of.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

As the mists of Ravenloft can reach into any world, I would say the dread familiar could leave the demiplane and if they did they would suffer no ill effect. That is me though

[Hell_Born]

That was my initial reaction to the idea at first too, I just thought I should double-check.

[Hell_Born]

Just one question, my memory's playing up. Do Dread Elementals cause Fear/Horror checks in Ravenloft? If not, should they cause Fear/Horror checks on other planes, as they will probably be mistaken for some manner of fiend?

[Jester of the FoS]

Personally I'd say dread familiars can leave, they're made of the stuff of the Mists true but they're also part of the caster and I think that bond is stronger. They may bring a little of the Dread Realms with them and the Dark Powers may still linger over the party with an escaped familiar.

As for the elementals I don't see why not. I wouldn't hesitate to put a Reaver or Dread Golem into the Forgotten Realms and have used the VanRichten Guides from Krynn to homebrews.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Personally I'd say dread familiars can leave, they're made of the stuff of the Mists true but they're also part of the caster and I think that bond is stronger. They may bring a little of the Dread Realms with them and the Dark Powers may still linger over the party with an escaped familiar.

As for the elementals I don't see why not. I wouldn't hesitate to put a Reaver or Dread Golem into the Forgotten Realms and have used the VanRichten Guides from Krynn to homebrews.

As I said, the Mists can go anywhere and the dread familiar is crafted from the mists Good to see you with me on this mate

[Hell_Born]

This is a more specific question; can a mage who has a Dread Familiar take the Enhanced Familiar Feat? The exception is obviously the Celestial version of the default familiars, because Dread Familiars are always Evil-Aligned. If he can take the Enhanced Familiar Feat and he chooses a Small Elemental for a Familiar, would it be more appropriate to replace it with a Small Dread Elemental or to add the Corrupted Elemental Template to it?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Just one question, my memory's playing up. Do Dread Elementals cause Fear/Horror checks in Ravenloft? If not, should they cause Fear/Horror checks on other planes, as they will probably be mistaken for some manner of fiend?

On the surface, a dread familiar doesn't usually look any different from a normal animal of its type (though its behavior is different). An NPC would have to know what a "familiar" is (unlikely in most magic-ignorant lands) and that familiars are dangerous in the Land of Mists (likely only for those who know a little about arcane magic) to realize the familiar is something other than a pet or animal companion. The familiar's animal-type is also a consideration: a fluffy ginger cat is a lot more likely to be accepted than a venomous snake.

I'd judge on a case-by-case basis whether a familiar is sufficiently seen as a threat to warrant a Fear or Horror check. To a Hazlani, a wizard's familiar is a wizard's familiar, and not to be trusted (nor the wizard for that matter). To a Lamordian, a wizard's familiar is a pet, and the wizard's habit of talking to it in "baby talk" (= private communication) is a silly sentimental affectation from a self-deluded mind. To a Tepestani, a wizard's familiar is a fey creature who serves the same evil as all creatures of magic and should be destroyed, just like any other small animal (familiar or not) that is suspected of being supernatural or unlucky. To a Barovian, a bat or rat familiar is very scary (but because it might be a vampire's pawn, not because it's a familiar!), and any other kind of familiar is just a plain ol' cat/toad/weasel/etc.

Fear and Horror checks shouldn't usually apply outside of Ravenloft or its Masque spin-offs. The one exception might be if a Ravenloft-specific monster or spell effect was employed outside of those settings, which depends on Fear and/or Horror checks as its game mechanic; then, roll the check as if the creature/spell were in Ravenloft.

If you've incorporated Fear and Horror checks into some other setting, use your own judgement as to what a non-Ravenloft character would find scary enough to warrant a check. Certainly, if dread familiars qualify as check-inducing menaces IYC, all the other fiends should too.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

This is a more specific question; can a mage who has a Dread Familiar take the Enhanced Familiar Feat? The exception is obviously the Celestial version of the default familiars, because Dread Familiars are always Evil-Aligned. If he can take the Enhanced Familiar Feat and he chooses a Small Elemental for a Familiar, would it be more appropriate to replace it with a Small Dread Elemental or to add the Corrupted Elemental Template to it?

Just apply the same template as any other Enhanced Familiar could get. In a dread familiar's case, that would have to be either fiendish, anarchic or axiomatic, as celestial is obviously not an option (unless the feat that shifts a dread familiar's alignment to Neutral has already been chosen).

[Hell_Born]

I was asking if Dread ELEMENTALS cause Fear/Horror checks, not Dread Familiars. Because a mobile mass of grave dirt, column of fire+bones or pool of bloody water is definately not natural. Familiars aren't even slightly scary, even Dread Familiars, unless they have the Fiendish template or something.

By the way, can someone tell me what effect the various 'advanced' Familiars you gain access to by the Improved Familiar feat have on their master? I know what effects normal/Dread Familiars have (+3 to Listen checks for bats ect), but I can't find what benefits they Improved Familiars give.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I was asking if Dread ELEMENTALS cause Fear/Horror checks, not Dread Familiars.

Oops, my boo-boo. Teach me to skim posts when half my mind is still in the middle of lecturing, eh?