The Neverland Domain

Discussing all things Ravenloft
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The Nightmare Man
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Post by The Nightmare Man »

I like it.

Hook might even believe that he is actually doing the "right thing", his morality and perception of the true nature of the plane and Peter corrupted by the Dark Powers themselves and his own need for revenge.
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Post by Scott C. Bourgeois »

Just to add two cents,

Captain Hook's first name is James.

Moreover, Hook is probably one of the best designed villains in literature. A man who fears age but hates youth, and is literally hunted by death... a crocodile with a ticking clock in its belly.

If you haven't seen it, watch the new Peter Pan adaptation starring Jason Isaacs (Lucius Malfoy from Harry Potter) as Captain Hook. It's a really good version, and is shows Neverland to be both beautiful and dark...

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Post by FavouredEnemy »

Neverland – a child’s dream come true

The land is created from a child’s dreams and hopes – however bright or dark they may be. There is adventure in the form of Indians, mermaids, ruined castles, deep forests. There is danger in the wicked Captain James Hook, who is bent on destroying youth and those who have it. Standing firmly in front of this danger and constantly mocking it is Peter Pan, the boy everyone wants to be friends with – he’s courageous, daring, fun… and he can fly!

Literally anything a child ever wished comes true in Neverland, and that’s how new children come to the land – they wish themselves away, they think of happy thoughts, and they lift themselves away from their homes and families into the wonderful world of Neverland.

However, the darker side of Neverland comes out when no one is looking. True, the children live in a wonderful world of light, fairies and bow and arrows, but something else happens in the land… the children’s secret fears come out at night. These fears manifest when the child is alone, confused or scared, when the child has lost Pan, when the adventure fades for a second. The worry will slowly grow, and when the children are not having innocent carefree fun, they start to age.

But for the most part, life continues on happily for the children, who are still innocent and happy, carefree and heartless, as they roam their island paradise, swashbuckling against pirates and chasing Indian girls.

Darklord – Hook, definitely. I like the idea of him having once been a Lost Boy – perhaps another Pan that was kicked out by the latest one. Since having watched the latest film, where Hook repeatedly shoots pirates, I wondered where they came from. Even then, my guess was that they were grown up Lost Boys… so that’s what I’m doing with the domain. When you’re not having fun, you age. Peter Pan is only in charge, because he has the most fun, and will never grow up as long as he keeps just having fun, which is why he chooses to ignore things like love or those he doesn’t know. Pan, then, ‘dethroned’ James Hook, who took it personally when Pan took over, he aged, aged and aged some more, until he was too old to have fun. Perhaps Pan took his hand off and fed it to a crocodile at this point? The pirates come from Lost Boys, and since they’re under the tyrannical rule of Hook, they don’t have fun. The Indians, the other major group of humans on the island, age as normal, combining fun with not-fun – it’s only Pan and the Lost Boys who see childhood as being something you have or do not, no in between stages.

The Land – The land is an island paradise – there are beautiful waterfalls, dense jungles… whatever fantastic scenery a boy could think of. The island itself is incredibly mutable, since no one really keeps maps. The land responds to the thoughts of the child inhabitants, pretty much in the same way that other domains can seem to have elastic distances – journeys that should only take a few hours taking a few days. Equally, the childish minds of the Lost Boys don’t want to bother with hours or days of overland travel – whenever they turn around, there’s an adventure! The land does not react to adult minds – they’ve grown up, forgotten how to be imaginative, and generally, aren’t as fun. In this way, the land taunts the current Darklord, who was once a Lost Boy, and his childhood memories only haunt him, by avoiding him entirely, or by hosting the latest attack on him or his crew by Pan and the Lost Boys. This also plays with the idea that the weather and the land work against Hook – he becomes more angry or miserable in fine weather, because he knows the Lost Boys are having fun somewhere. He just gets jealous.

Theme – I think a definite theme here is the duality of nature thing, as in Nova Vaasa. Here, though, it is exemplified by the Hook/Pan dichotomy, and the Lost Boys/Pirates thing. Although each group is near identical, they are separated by innocence. The children attack the pirates because in their minds, the pirates are the bad guys. The pirates in turn, as dispossessed Lost Boys, are fuelled by malice, jealousy and spite – none more so than Hook. The simple thoughts of the children become self-fulfilling prophecies, where being a pirate means being nasty – as children, they’re not being nasty, because it is just, because the pirates are evil. Equally, there is the blurring of good and evil – that on the surface, Pan stands for good, when he’s a heartless, thoughtless child, while on the other side, there’s the evil pirates… like Smee, the friendly, helpful, ‘never-wanted-to-be-a-pirate’ pirate. It’s about the long standing good and bad sides to hiding in a childish realm of possibilities and lacking the ability to follow thoughts through to their natural conclusion, rather than face the normally intensely banal world of adulthood, where you do – something that most roleplayers should be able to empathise with.


So, what about that? And now what do I do?
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

I think that this whole domain sounds like something a bored shadow fey (perhaps a powrie? is Tinkerbell really a whole lot uglier, when she's not masked by illusion?) might have cooked up, and set into motion, as a way to preserve the casual, heedless cruelty of mortal children. Rather than making them changelings -- which tends to eliminate the spontenaity and creative nastiness this fey found so fascinating in human kids, and in boys especially -- the powrie in question used her own knowledge of the Land of Mists to establish a "Pan"-figure darklord, stealing and rearing a whole succession of baby boys to despise their own mortality and to aspire to an eternity of "fun" -- powrie-style fun -- at any cost, including ousting their predecessors from the Pan role. Lads she didn't personally raise to be Pans, but which show the right spark of rebellious viciousness, she also lures away to Neverland, to become Lost Boys for a few years ... only to age rapidly, when they cease to have fun: something that she finds both appropriate and hilarious.

However, what the fey *didn't* count on was that one of the Lost Boys (Hook) would become so embittered by his return to mundane mortality that he'd actually become more vicious and vindictive than the childish Pan-darklord could ever be! Recognizing (as the Children of Spring seem unable to) that the deliberate evil of adults is more genuine than the shallow, unthinking cruelties of children, the Dark Powers transferred control of the domain to Hook, possibly after Hook destroyed the Pan who preceded Peter. "Tinkerbell" responded by enlisting a new Pan, spurring his hatred of Hook, and has been carefully fostering that enmity ever since, with the eventual hope of returning "her" Pan to power. This has put her in the unique (for a powrie) position of having to cast her own allies as the "good guys" (!), the better to fire the juvenile Lost Boys' and Peter's determination to defeat the "bad guys" (Hook and the pirates).

It also means that, should PC heroes come to Neverland and defeat Hook, thinking that Good has at last triumphed over Evil in Ravenloft, it won't take long for "Tinkerbell" to prove them wrong, as she immediately resumes encouraging Peter and his Boys to behave with cruelty ... or as she suddenly gets stuck with darklordship, herself!
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Post by Dominique »

Rotipher--brilliant! I was trying to figure out a way to work the shadow fey into this, since this really sounds like their kind of thing.
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Post by FavouredEnemy »

Hmm... sounds quite cool, but I'm not sure if works in relation to the Pan story, which I'd still like to keep a fairly close resemblance to...

The idea that fairies are small, and therefore can only hold one emotion at a time, be that a good one or a bad one, fits well with the idea that the children themselves are limited in what they can hold in their heads at once - in fact, fairies could be seen as further exagerrations of the children in that way.

Still, I do like that Tinkerbell is manipulating Pan, and when she gets jealous over Wendy and Pan's pseudo-relationship, it's because something backfired somewhere, that the Lost Boys were created by her, and a girl was never to get involved... probably because Tinkerbell herself was in some kind of love with Pan. If she was in love with Pan, then it'd help explain she joined forces with Hook for a while - she was in love with him too at one point. Joining in with the idea that fairies also have short attention spans and so on, it could be that Tink just falls in love with any Pan that comes along, without being particular over who that Pan is... still, she has to be possessive, since she's threatening to kill Wendy if she gives him a 'thimble'.

I don't like the idea of Tinkerbell being darklord; or rather, I do, I think it's great, but it doesn't fit with where I was going. That the malice of the Boys/pirates is all their own rather than encouraged by an outside force (beyond just the dark powers); I also don't like the fairies being able to create a domain, or that Pan can just lose darklordship when someone more evil comes along.

No, bored shadow fey doesn't quite work. The fairies weren't a large part of the story; Tinkerbell was quite important, but I don't think they should be quite that integral, not if the theme is of the disparity between adult malice and childish taunting.

Still, thanks. I was wondering what the role of the fairies was going to be - this gives me ideas.
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Post by FavouredEnemy »

Furthermore, from watching the film at moment and from my g/f's extensive Peter Pan knowledge - fairies are embodiments of children - each one is created by a child's first laugh, and die when people profess that fairies aren't real. Peter rejecting Tink for Wendy when Tink gets her shot down is the closest Peter gets to growing up, and why he has to accept her back. The fairies are the childhood of the children - it is them that prevent the children in Neverland from growing up, and so therefore it must be the rejection of them that cause growing up...

Perhaps the fairies are tied to the fun of children - feed off it, perhaps? So that when the children stop having fun, the fairies stop hanging around them, and so the children then start to grow old - quicker, perhaps, because of the delayed aging catching up with them.

Having come up with all this and then watching the film, it works *so well* as a Ravenloft domain.
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Post by Jester of the FoS »

So, by extension Tinkerbell is Peter's fairy and keeps him young to extend her life? I like it, it makes sense and is much better than just having Tink be the darklord due to being the only character that does not fit.
I like that version of darklord Tink better than Hook (too obvious, predictable and a one-note villian) or Pan (just doesn't fit with the character).
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

FavouredEnemy wrote: I do like that Tinkerbell is manipulating Pan, and when she gets jealous over Wendy and Pan's pseudo-relationship, it's because something backfired somewhere, that the Lost Boys were created by her, and a girl was never to get involved... probably because Tinkerbell herself was in some kind of love with Pan. If she was in love with Pan, then it'd help explain she joined forces with Hook for a while - she was in love with him too at one point.
I wouldn't go so far as to establish that Tink is actually *in love* with ANY human, if you want to avoid over-humanizing (and thus losing the vital spookiness of) the fey in Ravenloft (shadow or otherwise). Rather, she would feel possessive about Peter, and perhaps Hook too if that fits your storyline, in the same manner that a human would feel possessive about a favorite pet: "That's MY human, I'VE been taking care of him, he does what I say; you can't have him!"
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Post by FavouredEnemy »

Tinkerbell hating Wendy because she might make Pan grow up rather than jealousy is a nice touch... and in some ways, Peter does start to grow up, and Tink does die at the point when he's really miserable as everyone has left him... he's not having fun. But Peter wants her back too much, and wills her to life again, rejecting Wendy and the grown up world.

No, if Tinkerbell is keeping him young because that's the only way for her to live, it doesn't strike me as particularly evil. It's survival. Also, keeping in line with the one emotion at a time thing, I don't think fairies could be that sufficiently advanced to come up with a plan like that.

Hook works better as the darklord. There are the huge number of similarities between him and Pan, only Hook is aware of the effects of his behaviour on other people... and likes to cause misery and so on. He also similar to Pan as a grown up in that Wendy does find him attractive - in the film, the same actor plays the father as Hook, and that's because without Pan, the series of Wendys that are brought into Neverland have to settle for Husband out in the real world.

If we're having Hook as an ex-Pan, it makes sense that the last Wendy - Mrs Darling - would go back into the world, and find someone similar to her Pan - Hook. In the book at least, Mrs Darling never really loved Mr Darling, because he was the grown up version of her Pan. That's what the Wendys always fall in love with - the child.

This way, we have a series of darklords, each being the previous version of Pan. Presumbaly, after Wendy left for the real world, she married someone she found that reminded her of Pan. Pan, seeing this, becomes lonely and bitter, turns into a Hook, with a Lost Boy rising to take his place as Pan. Tinkerbell dies, but there are always more fairies as long as children have a first laugh.
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Post by FavouredEnemy »

Perhaps... perhaps we can have it that the cycle of Pan-Hook, Pan-Hook is already established in the world, and Tinkerbell is, by trying to kill Wendy, protect her Pan from turning into a Hook, because Tink knows where the starting to grow up thing will end? If she was darklord, constantly having her people grow old and evil and die would be a suitable punishment, especially if she loved them all. What would have caused Tink's darklordship, though? It has to be some kind of really evil act - perhaps she did manage to kill a Wendy once, which is why there's a continuous loop of Wendys?

Still, however cool this might sound, the fairies are supposed to be there as a representation of childhood. Since we certainly can't have childhood as being evil - children never mean to be evil, they just can't see things through to a logical conclusion - the representations of their childhood can't be evil.

We can entirely have that Hook is darklord because he killed his Wendy. Except that'd mean no Mrs Darling... unless the domain was formed when real-life Hook killed real-life Mrs Darling, forming the Neverland domain which draws Wendys from other domains. That might work, and means that the domain fits in better with Ravenloft as a whole. Somewhere, in Ravenloft, when this domain was formed, a Ravenloft-Mrs Darling and family were created, for the delight of Pan and the torment of Hook - he lost his chance to be Pan, because he believed his Tinkerbell, but afterwards, realised it was the wrong thing to do, and therefore started to age, losing both Wendy and Tink. That's tragic.

How about that?
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Post by Reginald de Curry »

I listed a few Neverland-inspired plot hooks in the "Domain of the Week" thread for Blaustein (that was the pirate domain, wasn't it?). I'll post them (or a link) as soon as I can find the dang thing....

EDIT: Found it in the Salon. The boy was based on Peter, his sister on Wendy, etc.

The PCs are investigating the haunting of a port warehouse by two ghosts: a boy of age ten or so, and a huge alligator.

Complications

- The boy was killed seven years ago by a pirate captain with only one hand.
- The boy once served as the pirate ship's cabin boy.
- The captain lost his hand when attacked by an alligator.
- The two ghosts are actually one and the same.
- The captain had once captured a powrie, but it escaped.
- The powrie had given the boy a vial of gold dust.
- The dust was a cursed potion; it allowed the user to fly at will for one hour, but inflicted a lycanthropic curse the following night (werealligator; the trigger was the chime of midnight by any ringing clock). The vial, if found, contains two more doses.
- The powrie escaped when the boy transformed and attacked the captain.
- "Arr-harr, matey!!! What are you doing with my purse?!" (red herring)
- The boy's sister works at the local tavern, and is going to poison tonight's stew (the captain's favorite). The poison will not discriminate between customers.
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Post by FavouredEnemy »

YES! Yes, I like that. Peter Pan as werealligator. Done!

Not sure I'll blame Tinkerbell, though.

Also, the captain's hatred of clocks would also be explained if every time one chimed, it turned his archnemesis into a huge creature bent on eating him.

Hmm... even in the stories, Pan took his hand and fed it to an alligator...
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Post by Gemathustra »

FavouredEnemy wrote:YES! Yes, I like that. Peter Pan as werealligator. Done!

Not sure I'll blame Tinkerbell, though.

Also, the captain's hatred of clocks would also be explained if every time one chimed, it turned his archnemesis into a huge creature bent on eating him.

Hmm... even in the stories, Pan took his hand and fed it to an alligator...
"Sooner or later, he [ "El Chupaneebray"] will eat you and your alligator!"
"*snort* crocodile."
"Arrogant mortal! You are in my world now and you will never leave this attic alive! I will destroy you, and then I will possess she whom you love the most. And there is not a single thing in the world you can do to stop me!"
*poke*
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Post by Hrtofdrkns »

Favored Enemy wrote:
children never mean to be evil, they just can't see things through to a logical conclusion -
Children can mean to be evil. Trust me on this one. Growing up, I was mercilessly tormented by those little brats. Even in highschool it didn't stop. The older brats just got younger brats to do it to me. I couldn't fight back of course. No, anybody could do whatever the hell they wanted to me and I was forbidden to do anything about it.

Thanks to those brats I'm a bitter old man at the age of 20.
Thing's always work out if you just do whatever you want without worrying about the consequences.
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