Twenty Ways to Stake a Vampire

[DeepShadow of FoS]

What are your rules for vampire staking in 3E/3.5? In the old regime it was a -8 to hit (VRGtV) but with True Strike that would have first-level parties staking patriarchs on a regular basis.

VRA has its own rules, which require the vampire to be helpless; it's basically a coup de grace. It says this is an exception to the critical hit rules for undead, but I'm much more concerned with the means used to render the vampire suitable for staking. How does one render a vampire helpless?

They're immune to subdual damage. Can't be held, paralyzed, poisoned or even drained of their strength. That leaves grappling...with the one creature anyone in their right mind would never touch.

Are we to take this to mean that--barring heartseeker enchantments--the only vampires that can be staked are ones that are slumbering in their coffins, whether in daytime or as a result of being reduced to 0 hp? And if that's what these rules mean...do you actually follow them? Do you ever allow for staking in combat?

[Jester of the FoS]

This was discussed earlier and I think the consenus was trying to stake an active vamp was akin to suicide. But if you wanted to try it, it was hitting a target 2-3 sizes smaller than the vamp and required a solid and sharpened wooden stake and not just some broken arrow. Oh, and armour of any kind prevent it from penetrating.

If the blow connected it would act like a critcal doing 3-4x the damage and bypassing damage resistance, if that was enough to kill the vampire it would be staked. If not then there is NO critical damage and it is a regular blow subject to DR. The idea being you have to soften the vamp up first or they're too strong and powerful.

[Jasper]

Canon wise the only helpless vampires are the sleeping kind and those held by physical means (One person to each arm/leg and another around the neck or help fast by cold iron or silver chains). A grapled vampire might also qualify.

Personaly I allow a -8 to hit a moving vampire at the vampires base armour class but the stake must be unassisted by magic or it losses its special ability to harm the vampire. Any miss renders the stake unuseable as it shatters on the vampires hard flesh as well. If the vampire is wearing any armor stakeing is completely impossable (though when they change into mist the armour stays behind).

[alhoon]

In the SotK site the following rule has been proposed:

"Stake is an exotic weapon (-4 to hit rolls) and probably improvised (-1 extra) that deals 1d4 damage and threats at 20/x2. If you score a critical hit against a vampire (20 and then confirm) and you bypass the damage reduction, the vampire is staked"

[Manofevil]

I've often wondered about the whole staking and turning to mist thing. If a vampire is caught off guard and about to be staked, can it not just turn to mist and allow the stake to simply pass through. If, under similar circumctances, a vampire is beheaed, can the vampire not turn to mist and simply allow the blade to pass through its neck and then reconstitute.

[MatthiasStormcrow]

That is one of the key problems with grappling a vampire, at any rate. I don't think vampires can turn to mist quickly enough or selectively enough to avoid a beheading that way, but to get a vampire "helpless" through grappling you'd need grapple it and then pin it; and it's a rare (or unwise) vampire who will stay solid long enough for you to accomplish that.

[Scipion_Emilien]

I always wonder, what would happen if an arrow hit a vampire in the heart. It is after all a wooden shaft that can be qualifie as a stake, but vampire doesn't really seem to be afraid of bow and crossbow.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

If a vampire is caught off guard and about to be staked, can it not just turn to mist and allow the stake to simply pass through. If, under similar circumctances, a vampire is beheaed, can the vampire not turn to mist and simply allow the blade to pass through its neck and then reconstitute.

A vampire could probably use a readied action to transform, if it's willing to forego more aggressive melee options. It couldn't do this if it's been surprised, or as an un-readied defensive response to an attack, because transforming into mist is a standard action IIRC.

[MatthiasStormcrow]

I always wonder, what would happen if an arrow hit a vampire in the heart. It is after all a wooden shaft that can be qualifie as a stake, but vampire doesn't really seem to be afraid of bow and crossbow.

A crossbow bolt or arrow is going to have a metal head, and I've always assumed that the stake you'd use on a vampire would need to have a wooden point. And an arrow with the point snapped off, honestly is much more likely to simply break than it is to punch through anything offering a decent amount of resistance. There is a reason they give them metal tips, after all.

[Jasper]

Its also commonly thought that the vampires skin is as strong as steel in all places but a small area over the heart (about a 2' circle). Holding a stake over that spot and pounding it in ensures that you hit just that spot. Trying to hit that spot exactly from any distence with a untiped arrow (a -2 at least to hit due to no tip) is nearly impossable for anyone less then Robin Hood or Legolas.

[Darkknight]

Depending how you look at things, a vampire could be immobilized by a holy symbol presented by a true believer or other act of faith...

A sleeping vamp is always immobile. Specially prepared net, variety of hold undead spell...

Anything that a true van richten scholar would know...

You also have that vamp garlic in his arsenal.

[Irving the Meek]

I've always thought, Buffy aside, that staking was meant for vampires in their coffins, Bram Stoker Dracula style.

There is a feat, "Target Vulnerable Spot", in CoD for those that want to try it in combat. Bear in mind that some PCs ARE on par with Robin Hood or Legolas...

As for dirty-trick ways to stake a vampire... Shackle, from VRA? Animate Object on a stake? Command Undead ("Hold still!")? Flesh to Stone+some masonry tools? (Bore hole. Insert stake. Add some washers to keep it from falling out.) Get a Wu Jen to cast Backbiter and hope he uses a spear? Changestaff and let the treant do it? (It'd be amusing just see the vampire try to suck blood. Maple syrup, anyone?) Trip him on some Spike Growth? The druids of the world have some answers to this one, I think...

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Like I said over on the Reckonings board, I think staking in combat should be possible, just highly unlikely. The crit system is in place for "hitting a vital area." Unlike most undead that have no vital areas, Vampires just have many less vital areas than the average creature. So if you scored a crit on a normal human, you might hit an eye, the jugular, a kidney, a lung, etc... or the heart. Say 10% of the time, it's the heart. So if you've got a sharp, wooden weapon, I'd say anytime you get a threat on vampire, roll to confirm the threat as though they weren't immune to criticals. Then if it would've been a crit, roll d% and try to get <10%. If so, you hit the heart. Then let the vamp make his STR check to avoid being staked, as in VRA.

highly unlikely unless you've got a keen wooden rapier with improved critical, and lot of attacks per round. But still possible.

[Charney]

I think the main difference between a stake and an arrow is also the size. In my mind stakes are roughly one inch in diameter which is about three time an arrow (except the uruk-hai arrows they use to shot down Boromir...). Anyway, I think the stake has to completely destroy the heart and not just pierce it. A balista bolt could do it too.

And the rules I use are the Coup-de-grâce and the highly not-probable critical hit with a stake doing 1d4 dmg.

[Kel-nage]

I wouldn't say ballista bolt for staking. Remember, there is the Staking Crossbow from Van Richten's Arsenal. In fact, imagine trying to stake a vampire normally using a ballista bolt...