Post Hour of Screaming Shadows Soth - Advice

[Glim]

In my campaign, Soth's still in Ravenloft, and the Hour of Screaming Shadows has awoken him from his apathy somewhat. Thinking Azrael is darklord in his stead, he seeks to challenge his treacherous seneschal and regain the reigns to Sithicus once again (he's completely unaware of Inza's Darklordship).

But first, he needs to gather allies, resources and intelligence. Therefore, he kidnaps important merchants and travellers and forces them to cooperate.

That's where my players come in, they'll serve as Soth's version of S, exploring the Core (lots of stuff has happened since Soth travelled it himself back in 720).

An encounter with Soth at low-level doesn't really seem like a good idea, even though he doesn't mean them harm, so I need some kind of lieutenant, preferably the leader of a whole group actually, supporting Soth's upcoming Revolution, but I've no idea if there's an existing secret society in or near Sithicus would lend itself for such a purpose.

Advice, comments, critique and everything else on this plotline is greatly appreciated.

[Coan]

Well Soth is a military man so likely anyone who he sends as a representative of himself will be rough and tough unless they amuse him enough that he entertains the idea of a fast talker calling for fellows.

What kinds of things will your players encounter? Exploring the core in general is actually a very broad task (Players guide to the best bars in the core syndrome where the players can just tour non-imposing places).

As for a secret society helping Soth out maybe Death could lend some troops in hoping to destabilise the South and spread some killing around (while expanding his influence).

[Le Noir Faineant]

IMC, Soth travels through Sithicus as a ghost, trying to right all the wrongs he did. Simple, but so he's universally appliable...

[Jester of the FoS]

Why would Soth want to get back his darklord-ship?
I can't imagine him ever being thrilled by being bound in borders that limit his search. He may still wish to explore the Core or asses the situation, what with his military mindset and all.

[Le Noir Faineant]

I was never too interested in Sithicus for my own games until recently. So, I missed all the classic modules, which was a mistake...

Now, I recall from the BB that Kithiara's ghost haunts the hills near Soth's old castle. Maybe Soth could meet the adventures while searching for her...

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

I'd see Soth moving north, taking out Malocchio if he could, then perhaps moving onto Falkovnia. I think he'd challenge Drakov for control of the army, and win. He'd gain a powerful army, though he'd keep Drakov alive. That would mean that Drakov would still be darklord, but his army is now organised.

Soth wouldn't keep Drakov alive to stop becoming darklord of Falkovnia, though, he'd do it as a mockery of the Oath and Measure. By not killing an enemy as dangerous as Drakov, he'd show the hollowness of the Measure, something which he has always done.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Maybe Drakov and Soth together would find a way out of the mists back to Krynn - AFAIK, Drakov entered his domain thorugh a portal from Taladas.
Or would they team up to conquer Darkon?

BTW, very nice approach, Drin. Hadn't thought of Soth's Solamnic past...

[Manofevil]

You guys just HAD to get me started didn't you!
Firstly, if i may use a phrase made famous by MSD, every time someone mentions Kitiara I'm reminded that the origin of Soth contains one of the biggest fundamental firetruck-ups in all of RavenLoft. It infuriates me to no end that Mr. Lowder was ordered/made/commanded to leave Kitiara out of his novel by the $^%$& suits at TSR. There's this great scene at the end of 'Test of the Twins' where Soth claims Kitiara, body and soul, as his reward for his service to Takhisis , Queen of Darkness. Tanis Half-Elven tries to interceed but Soth reminds Half-Elven that he's risking everything he has for someone who has never done anything besides betray him, that she really wasn''t worth it. It was really my favorite Soth scene in all the books. Now I accept that they didn't want Kitiara in RavenLoft. I can respect that. But that doesn't mean you let her go!!! When Soth became obssessed with Kitiara, his driving emotion ceased to be guilt over the cataclysm, his wife's death, and his refusal to save her, and became lust for Kitiara. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he caught the interest of the DPs. I am convinced that Soth's becoming a do-nothing in Sithicus is a direct result of Kitiara slipping through his fingers on Krynn. Why should he try to get out if he's just got the same old thing to go home to. He should have had Kitiara for a while before the mists took him. They wouldn't have taken her too if she was only interested in finding a place to hide from Soth. I don't recall a single instance of the mists taking someone whose only emotions were fear and revulsion, besides the mists only took Soth, not Dargaard Keep and everything else. Kitiara could have been easily overlooked. You don't like what Soth bacame, blame TSR. I heard that Tracy Hickman was to blame but I've blamed people on hearsay before and been wrong. I used to think that James Lowder was directly responsible for this and felt the need to publicly apologise on one of these boards. I won't believe it was Hickman until I've seen direct quotations, either public or private, leaving no doubt.
>whew< Okay I think I'm done ranting.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

Maybe Drakov and Soth together would find a way out of the mists back to Krynn - AFAIK, Drakov entered his domain thorugh a portal from Taladas.
Or would they team up to conquer Darkon?

BTW, very nice approach, Drin. Hadn't thought of Soth's Solamnic past...

I doubt Soth would share the power. He was happy to play second fiddle to Kitiara, but that was because of two things; 1) He admired and desired her, knowing that he was pleasing her satisfied him and 2) He knew that as soon as she died, he could make her into a creature like him and then she'd be the subservient one.

Drakov has no quailities for Soth to admire, he's lost every major conflict he's fought and that makes him incapable. Soth would not want to join with Drakov. Also, though they both hail from Krynn, Taladas and Ansalon are completely different places and that's no gurantee that they would work together.

[Ail]

Soth wouldn't keep Drakov alive to stop becoming darklord of Falkovnia, though, he'd do it as a mockery of the Oath and Measure. By not killing an enemy as dangerous as Drakov, he'd show the hollowness of the Measure, something which he has always done.

Though perhaps off-topic, what are The Oath and the Measure?

Ail

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

Soth wouldn't keep Drakov alive to stop becoming darklord of Falkovnia, though, he'd do it as a mockery of the Oath and Measure. By not killing an enemy as dangerous as Drakov, he'd show the hollowness of the Measure, something which he has always done.

Though perhaps off-topic, what are The Oath and the Measure?

Ail

Soth was a Knight of Solamnia. These are basically the Dragonlance equivelent to Paladins, but that's simplifing it a bit. The Oath is simple, Oth Sularas uth Mithas, My Honour is My Life.

The Measure is the Laws by which the Solamnic Knights live. There are around 500, and Soth upholds the ones to him that prove that the Measure is hollow. Indeed, he feels that if a creature as obviously corrupt as him can follow these rules, what does it say for the Knighthood itself?

[Jester of the FoS]

Kitiara was in the adventure "When the Black Rose Blooms", so it can't have just been 'the suits' and a broad denial. More likely they didn't want to usurp a second character created by Hickman and Weis, especially when the firestorm around that resulted in them having to yank Soth outta 'Loft.

And personally I don't mind Soth moving beyond mooning over a certain Blue Dragon Highlord.
Why?
Because that made him a darklord whose torment and curse was forever being denied the woman he loved. That's been done, thank you very much. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and collectable minuture spoon.

As it stands Soth has little motivation, little drive. Even in Dragonlance he was never the most productive of evil of villains. He sat around brooding over a single mistake for four hundred years and then, when snatched by the Mists, he continued right on brooding. The only break he had was going to war a couple of times for Kitiara and again with the Knights of Takhisis. Heck, the one adventure written around him focuses on him not doing anything and thus destroying the land.
He's the darklord equivalent of Dorian Grey, he just sits about and lets things happen around him.

He's not a schemer. He's not a manipulator. He's not a general. He's a weapon that sits about until someone picks him up and tries to aim him.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

Kitiara was in the adventure "When the Black Rose Blooms", so it can't have just been 'the suits' and a broad denial. More likely they didn't want to usurp a second character created by Hickman and Weis, especially when the firestorm around that resulted in them having to yank Soth outta 'Loft.

And personally I don't mind Soth moving beyond mooning over a certain Blue Dragon Highlord.
Why?
Because that made him a darklord whose torment and curse was forever being denied the woman he loved. That's been done, thank you very much. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and collectable minuture spoon.

As it stands Soth has little motivation, little drive. Even in Dragonlance he was never the most productive of evil of villains. He sat around brooding over a single mistake for four hundred years and then, when snatched by the Mists, he continued right on brooding. The only break he had was going to war a couple of times for Kitiara and again with the Knights of Takhisis. Heck, the one adventure written around him focuses on him not doing anything and thus destroying the land.
He's the darklord equivalent of Dorian Grey, he just sits about and lets things happen around him.

He's not a schemer. He's not a manipulator. He's not a general. He's a weapon that sits about until someone picks him up and tries to aim him.

Like Strahd did...

I'll agree, Soth doesn't have the smarts to see when he is being used.

[Irving the Meek]

Soth will never gain what he needs to complete his revolution, however... he's always going to miss some critical piece. He's a knight on an eternal quest, a crusader who's always on the verge of his next crusade...

The Dark Powers would have fun with that, and it'd keep him busy, too.

As for a lieutenant, someone other than another martial character might be in order. How about a recruiter of some sorts - a priest or preacher of some kind, with the charisma needed to suck the PCs in. Maybe even a fair elven maid to bait the trap. Hmm. Could be fun... and Soth has a thing for elven girls.

[Manofevil]

Kitiara was in the adventure "When the Black Rose Blooms", so it can't have just been 'the suits' and a broad denial. More likely they didn't want to usurp a second character created by Hickman and Weis, especially when the firestorm around that resulted in them having to yank Soth outta 'Loft.

There had better be one hell of a backstory there because according to the first chapters of 'Knight of the Black Rose', Soth believes Kitiara is still in the Abyss. And while Soth may not be the brightest, he's not completely DENSE! Here he is, in land that's completely different in so many ways, NONE of the gods he's ever been able to call upon are there, He's never heard any of the languages. He's set upon beings who equal his power , AT LEAST, and he's never heard of any of them before. So why should he believe that somehow, some way, Kitiara's suddenly there for him to have? Maybe it makes sense that Soth is the one DarkLord who figures out exactly how badly fubar he is. I mean nobody else did.

And personally I don't mind Soth moving beyond mooning over a certain Blue Dragon Highlord.
Why?
Because that made him a darklord whose torment and curse was forever being denied the woman he loved. That's been done, thank you very much. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and collectable minuture spoon.

... Just
Still I think you've missed a very significant difference between the two cases.
Strahd to Tatyana: 'I love you. I adore you. I must have you. I WILL have you!'
Soth to Kitiara: 'I own you. I dominate you. I love the way your flesh jiggles when you squirm beneath my heel'
I don't think you really appreciate how liberating Soth found his association with Kitiara. I think Soth finally realized he'd been on the wrong path all his life and afterwards. Kitiara took what she wanted when she wanted. Any pleasure, any treasure, every thing before her was hers by right of conquest. She took a different man to bed every night and boffed his brains out. Those she didn't dominate with the sword she dominated in bed and few indeed were the men who could match her in either place. She fought for fun, She killed for fun. She f--ked for fun. Nothing was ever important except conquest, power, and pleasure. Her relationship with Tanis Half-Elven was her single foray into a serious relationship and that was nothing she wouldn't sacrifice to rule the world. Think of a combination of Xena-Warrior Princess, Demona from 'Gargoyles', and the porn star, Jeanna Fine. I think Kitiara made Soth realize that he'd never really cared about the ideals and principles of the Knighthood in the first place. He'd always wanted to be Kitiara and never realized it. He joined the knighthood because that was the highest thing a person could do in Solamnia at the time. Kitiara's lust for life (and other things) undoubtedly aroused Soth far beyond his condition. (which says a great deal about Kitiara's sex appeal ) Can you imagine the image Soth would have had of himself had he succeeded in dominating her, even for a little while. Rob him of that and he'll never see himself as anything other than a could-have-been. We are surrounded by people like that. Professional and collegiate sports all across the world crank them out by the thousands.

As it stands Soth has little motivation, little drive. Even in Dragonlance he was never the most productive of evil of villains. He sat around brooding over a single mistake for four hundred years and then, when snatched by the Mists, he continued right on brooding. The only break he had was going to war a couple of times for Kitiara and again with the Knights of Takhisis. Heck, the one adventure written around him focuses on him not doing anything and thus destroying the land.

You're making my point for me here. Everything he could have been was scuttled by one bad creative decision. He's unique in RavenLoft, but (I feel) for all the wrong reasons.

He's the darklord equivalent of Dorian Grey, he just sits about and lets things happen around him.

So the question becomes 'Why don't more things happen?'

He's not a schemer. He's not a manipulator. He's not a general. He's a weapon that sits about until someone picks him up and tries to aim him.

That's exactly right! He's NOT any of those things. He never TRIED to be. He TRIED to be the biggest baddest most fearsome muthaf--ker on the block. The Goliath no David could best. The one no girl dared say 'no' to. I'll have you know that these kinds of villains are just as capable of creating pathos as any other because they are very VERY easy to hate. Actually, now that I look at it, there really isn't a great difference in personality between Soth and Dracov. Soth was a closet Drakov and never realized it. The point I'm making here (well, one of 'em) is that Soth is one of those people who believes that 'if the one in charge does it, then it's not wrong' and I feel terribly cheated that his entire RavenLoft storyline was so dissappointing. And I know I'm not the on;ly one who thinks so.

Please note: Both of these rants were based on MY impressions and MY expections which were based on a long affectionate relationship with the DragonLance world. I hate seeing any of the characters done poorly. If you had different impressions and expectations, don't think I won't respect them if you share them. You let ME rant.

It also occurs to me that I've jacked this thread with my rants. Here you guys are looking for suggestions and I go off. If you want to get Soth up and going again, I'd say the best way to do it would be to hit him with another female similar to Kitiara. (Note: NOT a Kitiara clone or reincarnation! Strahd owns that shtick)But someone who reminds him that what he wants is still out there the way Kitiara made him realize what it was he really wanted. Something to get his figuative blood up. I'd avoid using Kitiara at all. Given Soth's record with women, it probably wouldn't take much for him to forget her anyway.

Oh and it's EST Sularis oth Mithas.