Test of Virtue

[CorvusCornix]

Great Commandment, ScS . I hope nobody here hates me for bringing the topic back into a more serious direction .
Another part I'd consider vital for a "good" character is to take the blame for one's actions. For a test of virtue this could mean the following: even though your paladin tried to do good, for some reason the end result was something very bad. For example the typical "help the good NSC and only later realize he was the bad guy all along". What if through the help of the character, some villain was able to raze a village. Can the character now stand up, take the blame and take whatever steps are necessary to redeem himself? Can he really go to the guy who has just lost his home and family and tell him "Sorry, it was my fault, I'll do whatever I can to make up for it"?

[ScS of the Fraternity]

That kind of thing is a grey area - the kind that Ravenloft thrives on.
When a redeemed villian asks for forgiveness from someone he or she has hurt so badly, the usual result will be something along the lines of:
"Yeah, there's something you can do for me, Die!!!!" At which point out comes the pitchforks, torches and nooses.
Lesser crimes, or diffused responsibility, probably results in long term inprisonment - or mutilation.

It may seem right, but its not if it gets a person killed before they can do any good.

I'd say the best way to run it is for the villianous character to not deliberatly confront his or her victims, but rather to venture elsewhere. The situation is suspended - like a test of virtue that you think you passed, but will only be tested at a later date.
Then, later of course, the DM can spring it on them.

[Ronia Sun]

Ahhh, but it wouldn't be a villainaous character, though, would it? It's a test of virtue, so the person standing up to take responsibility is a good person who has inadvertently done a bad thing.

It surely does take a lot of courage and moral fiber to stand up and say "The bad guy won the day this time because I made an error in judgement. I'm sorry. What can I do?"

An even greater test of virtue is to be on the other end of that situation. It is a great sign of integrity to forgive someone who has gravely wronged you, and depending on what was done to you, it takes even more courage than saying "I'm sorry." Forgiving a murderer, who is now well and truly repentant and wishing to start a new life, would be damn hard. However, it is something that must be done, for here is a test of your true virtue...

(And thank you, Corvus, for bringing the subject back on topic. )

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Or to offer another example of the "taking responsibility" thing, we're having to deal with our failure from an earlier adventure. Myself and my girlfriend (knight and paladin) were hired to try and move a baby dragon from its lair due to the expansion of the town starting to encroach on its territory. We were told explicitly that we were *not* to kill the baby dragon, but just to drive it off, as otherwise the mother would come back and cause quite a bit of trouble. Our characters were trusted heavily (being Good alignment) to keep the others in line...

We failed. Horribly. One of the other characters blew the crap out of it with acid arrows and I ended up being the one to knock it into unconsciousness (and *not* by using nonlethal damage, mind you). I followed up by spending my only cure light wounds for the day (combo fighter/bard) to save its life, only to have yet another party member jump onto the baby d's back, using me as a springboard, and drive its falchion into the d's spine...

So we had to go back and admit our failure and admit that we've likely doomed the entire town to destruction... The point of the campaign now seems to be figuring out what we can do to fix this mess, which will be difficult as the only person we knew in town is the one who we failed and has lost all faith in us...

[Nathan of the FoS]

Or to offer another example of the "taking responsibility" thing, we're having to deal with our failure from an earlier adventure. Myself and my girlfriend (knight and paladin) were hired to try and move a baby dragon from its lair due to the expansion of the town starting to encroach on its territory. We were told explicitly that we were *not* to kill the baby dragon, but just to drive it off, as otherwise the mother would come back and cause quite a bit of trouble. Our characters were trusted heavily (being Good alignment) to keep the others in line...

We failed. Horribly. One of the other characters blew the crap out of it with acid arrows and I ended up being the one to knock it into unconsciousness (and *not* by using nonlethal damage, mind you). I followed up by spending my only cure light wounds for the day (combo fighter/bard) to save its life, only to have yet another party member jump onto the baby d's back, using me as a springboard, and drive its falchion into the d's spine...

So we had to go back and admit our failure and admit that we've likely doomed the entire town to destruction... The point of the campaign now seems to be figuring out what we can do to fix this mess, which will be difficult as the only person we knew in town is the one who we failed and has lost all faith in us...

!!!

And the other characters (I assume they were PCs) did this...why? And furthermore, why have the villagers lost their trust in you specifically, rather than in your fellows? (Unless they're now blaming you, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.)

[Lord Cyclohexane]

!!! And the other characters (I assume they were PCs) did this...why?

Depends on the player. The one lobbing acid arrows, his is because he's has ADD (which meant he heard "dragon" and immediately started thinking of how to kill it, completely missing all five times it was mentioned that we were *not* supposed to kill it) and who always plays death-dealing wizards like from the video games (this time playing a war mage from Complete Arcane)... We knew about all of this, though, and tried to plan around it, but that failed due to me forgetting that Melf's acid arrow does damage over multiple rounds (which my character wouldn't have known anyway)...

The one who jumped over me to kill the dragon, that's because he was keeping in character, unfortunately. He is playing a Neutral character who is a cat-person and is playing it just as aloof and uncaring as a real cat. As his character wouldn't be able to focus on what our mission was and as his character wouldn't be able to do anything but fight once the battle began, he began it and finished it and promptly fell asleep after killing it...

And furthermore, why have the villagers lost their trust in you specifically, rather than in your fellows? (Unless they're now blaming you, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.)

Mostly because they expected this out of the others, but they expected better of us, the knight and paladin. They expected us to understand and to pay attention and to be able to rein the others in. They figured everything would be alright because the knight and paladin were there... They never figured we'd fail...

[Ronia Sun]

And these people are supposed to be your *friends*? Good gods, who needs enemies?

I'd be tempted to tell them to get lost and never come near me again... (their characters, that is. The players are another situation, I suppose...)

I *suppose* it could be said they did it in the name of roleplaying...in which case whichever one of you is *not* the paladin ought to negotiate with the pissed-off mama and offer the baby's real killers up as blood-debt?

(But then, my greatest annoyance, in gaming and in real life, is people who should be intelligent but behave with persistent, mind-numbing stupiditiy)

This is the sort of thing, I guess, that leads to interparty conflict...

[CorvusCornix]

That kind of thing is a grey area - the kind that Ravenloft thrives on.
When a redeemed villian asks for forgiveness from someone he or she has hurt so badly, the usual result will be something along the lines of:
"Yeah, there's something you can do for me, Die!!!!" At which point out comes the pitchforks, torches and nooses.
Lesser crimes, or diffused responsibility, probably results in long term inprisonment - or mutilation.

Hm, you've got a point there... True, somebody who barely knows the PCs will most likely try to punish them in some way. I guess a way to make this work might be to have the victim be a close friend or a family member of the character. Somebody who is more likely to actually forgive the player, if he shows sincere regrets...

An even greater test of virtue is to be on the other end of that situation. It is a great sign of integrity to forgive someone who has gravely wronged you, and depending on what was done to you, it takes even more courage than saying "I'm sorry." Forgiving a murderer, who is now well and truly repentant and wishing to start a new life, would be damn hard. However, it is something that must be done, for here is a test of your true virtue...

Good idea, I guess whether this one works out strongly depends on your player to actually play in-character. After all, it's quite easy to be forgiving if the bad stuff only happened to your fictional alter ego . Roleplaying this situation can be rather difficult, your player will most likely think about the consequences first, while it's highly likely that the Character would simply lose his temper and try to kill said murderer...