Does anyone think I should go through with this idea?

[Hell_Born]

I've watched the Doctor Who episode "The Girl in the Fireplace" and this episode, coupled with my love of the Deadlands rpg, prompted me to consider designed "cyber-undead" ala these two sources; creatures that were initially clockwork, but which have been made something more by the inclusion of organic components from sentient creatures; an eye here, a heart there, muscles in place of cogs, a brain inside a metallic skull etc.

What I am asking is; does this sound like a good idea and, if so, can anyone help me go through with it?

[Reaper333]

This could work, maybe as another bizarre variety of dread golem.
Maybe its creator - a genius when it comes to clockworks - built a magnificent creation, an automaton that moved and behaved much like a human being....but then decided in a rush of madness that his construction was still flawed because it was too artificial and thus included human(oid) parts into it, giving it strange new abilities...and maybe a malificent sentience....

[Lord Cyclohexane]

I think it's a neat idea, and considered a similar thing for the Paridon Gazetteer. Think of the Victorian cyborgs from City of Lost Children or, if you read comics, the Victorian cyborg from Books of Magic (I think it was the third TPB). So it's an interesting idea, anyway, but probably only for cutting-edge Renaissance-level domains (Paridon, Lamordia, etc).

But note that the two above start as humans, then adding on clockwork mechanisms. The latter has replaced *everything* and so is fully clockwork, but it's still a different idea.

But what if your golem-maker found himself unequal to the task, finding that creating a clockwork eye was too difficult and instead harvested an organic eye to cover his inadequacies? This could then cover other organs as well, as he finds clockwork equivalents were simply not possible.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Interesting idea. You should probably add some thematic elements that keep it Gothic, though, as presented wrongly it could come off like a direct-to-video scifi splatterflick concept.

[Nathan of the FoS]

Huh...this reminds me of a character in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, who appears to be human but who is actually a (tremendously sophisticated) android. He was injured in a botched spaceship landing and parts were taken from his organic shipmates who died in the crash to sustain his life. ("life"?)

And then there's General Grievous...actually, there are LOTS of examples, aren't there?

Yeah, you could do a lot with this.

[Hell_Born]

Okay, I'm glad to hear people like the idea. Can anyone suggest how to handle them, statwise, and/or how to make them a better fit in Ravenloft's Gothic atmosphere? For example, I'm thinking they'd be either Living Constructs or Augmented Undead, perhaps both dependant upon how much organic tissue has been incorporated.

Funny thing is, I initially considered designing a sort of "Mad Scientist" character class, ala the Mad Scientist of Deadlands D20, which used "wierd science" powered by the Dark Powers to produce monsters. These "bio-clockworks" were initially part of the intended menagerie. Funny how things work, hey?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

The determination of whether they're considered constructs or undead is probably best made by whether these are newly-created, conscious entities -- i.e. they have an intelligence that didn't exist until their creator built them -- or the re-animated husks and minds of previously-existing beings. The line between the categories can get blurry at times (e.g. when a living brain is transplanted into a construct), but as a rule, if an individual consciousness wasn't Born, but fabricated, then it's Created.

For Gothic elements, the classic way to go with constructs is to make them a bit pitiable. Perhaps their organic parts bring with them a longing to reclaim whatever the human "donor" once savored doing with that body part: an artist's hand brings with it an urge to paint, a lover's eye bears a craving to see its former owner's beloved, etc. A clockwork golem would have little understanding of these urges, and no capacity to fulfill them (e.g. trying to paint to satisfy an artist's transplanted hand only results in a smeary mess on the canvas).

[Hell_Born]

Okay... any more suggestions? Or ideas on how to handle these things ruleswise?

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I think you need to clarify just a little about what is the essance of these creatures?

Are these machine organisms who use humanoids as spare parts.
An example of this would the aliens from the movie Moontrap. They are wholly machine in mind and motivation, but they incorporate biological parts into their make-up - just as if it were any other mechanical part.
In such a case, each creature is typical for its race but has one change to it specific to the creature/s it recently devoured.
EX: One salvaged wizard and has ability to cast spells , while another assimilated a fighter, and so uses a sword with an improved hit bonus and feats.

Or, are they techno-zombies. These creatures would be more like the Borg - undead beings, possible sentient, who are transformed after dead. Such creatures would be vulnerable to zeitbergers - reminders of their past life that cause them to go berzerk, be distracted, or otherwise act erratically. The creatures would use the dead NPC as the base creature, and simply apply a template to that.

Alternatly, you could make them straight-up undead but with non-magical components. Such as a cyber-ghoul who uses paralysis poison rather than a magical paralysis touch - or a zombie with an enhanced AC and damage.

[Hell_Born]

Hmm... It's hard to say really, basically they're somewhere between option A and option B; they were created artificially, but they require assimilated organic tissue to function- not only from a mechanical point of view, but also because the organic matter serves as the "divine spark"; the initiation of "life" in these artificial creatures. I think options A or C would probably represent them best in the game.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

That sounds like the Created to me. As you said, it's something "created artificially" rather than being born. That it requires organic tissue, however, just sounds like an odd "dietary" requirement, or a "repair" requirement for when one repairs the damage of a construct.

I realize that the entity doesn't *eat* the organic parts but rather has them grafted to its structure, but it sounds like it should fit "dietary requirement" rules. For example, have them all be basically clockwork golems but they have to add one organic component to themselves per week. Perhaps they'd add a hand one week, an eye the next week, etc. They need to have four biological components at a time to provide sufficient spiritual energy to keep going, and while the harvested parts decay slower when attached to the golem, they rot away within four weeks time (so replace one part each week).

Note that the times and numbers could be changed to match your needs. For example, maybe the golem only needs to "eat" once a month, or only needs three biological parts at a time, or maybe needs five parts, etc.

If you plan on defining zeitgebers based on the biological parts (living spirit introducing chaos to the perfectly ordered clockwork system), it might be best to have the biological parts last longer, like 3 months, with golem eating once a month. Then, if the PCs decide to blow it off for a while, by the time 3 months pass, the PCs no longer know any of the golem's zeitgebers anymore. Or it could be interesting as the PCs receive information from another monster hunter who is too injured to continue the hunt, but the PCs find that only one of the zeitgebers remains the same as it was...

See what you think about it.

[Jasper]

While its as far from a Ravenloft movie as you can get the movie Bicentennial Man has lot of stealable parts for this idea.

In the movie a early model andriod slowly adds more are more human like parts to himself o learn how to feel pain and love and sadness. In the end he becomes so human that he even gains the ability to die.

To put in ravenloft terms I would make it a unique creature- subtype construct with a similer backstory. For Ex: A mad scientist under the pay of the Falknovian army creates what was to the perfect soldier, a clockwork swordsman who feels neaither pain nor fear. After many long battles the mechanical man began to wonder what made his victums tick. The red blood that washed his blade was alien to him and the crys of pain and mercy brough only confusion. On a whim he placed the flayed flesh of his latest kill upon his robotic arm only to have it fuse to his arm and its strength surge through him O(he gains str = to the victim strength if greater). Facinated he begain to skin more from the body, first the hands (Gains Dex) then the torso (Con) next the face (Cha), the eyes (wis) and finaly the brain and heart (Int). Shocked he began to feel waves to unkown experiances-pain and pleasure, anger and sadness. Growing allmost addicted to these new feelings the swordsman began a month of debotchery-feeding every litle whim and savorying and all all new experiances. (Creature now is subject to all spells/abilities that would affect a living creature)

But like all good things this was not to last. Soon the stolen flesh started rotting and festering robing the warrior of these adictive sensations . (-1 to each stat each week untill back to normal. Once normal reverts back to construct). Engraged by the loss the swordsman stole into the shadows and began his hunt for those that would best all him to feel once more.

[Darkknight]

Creator and creation being fused together????

The creation longing to hev the life the creator has and then absorbing him/her????

[Lord Cyclohexane]

I guess, to follow on my stuff above:

I'd suggest that these creatures, as per typical Ravenloft golems, have 1d4-1 salient abilities. However, they require biological parts to fuel said powers. The creature requires at least 1 biological part (having none causes the entity to lose any supernatural and spell-like abilities it might have), but for every part over that first, it either gains a Created salient ability from RLCS or gains a certain number of skill points stolen from the original owner of said part.

For the latter, consider the ability from Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead, p51, of Memory Drain (Su). Same basis, that since the golem harvests a certain amount of flesh from a corpse, it absorbs a certain amount of memories. I'd change it from the VRGttWD rules, however, considering how little flesh this golem would harvest; instead, make it a flat 4 skill points, based relatively on the part used. An eye from a hunter might add +2 Spot, +2 Search. The hand of a painter might add +2 Craft (Painting) and +2 Sleight of Hand.

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To give you anything real, stats-wise, though, we'd need to know more about what you're looking for. Should these be weak monstrosities (low CR) or strong ones? Or should it be variable, where grafting flesh to their mechanistic bodies causes their HD and CR to go up?

Plus, it's good to have somewhere to start from. I'd be tempted to use the "Mechanical Golem" from Denizens of Dread, p98, as the original basis, then start working down a bit for the base robot/android/clockwork that will then have the biologics grafted on top of it.

Anyway, what I mean is, what is your opinion on it? It's good to have a starting point to work from, and as they say, "You only get out what you put in" so you need to put in a little insight here.

[Hell_Born]

Stat-wise, I'd say these are weak creatures; the organic components provide the creature with life-force energy, but it's primarily composed of -very delicate- clockworks, which are easily smashed. The Mechanical Golem might indeed be a good base for them, and Lord Cyclohexane and Jasper have ideas similar to my own on how the creature operates.