Souragne project

Discussing all things Ravenloft
User avatar
Rotipher of the FoS
Thieving Crow
Thieving Crow
Posts: 4683
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:18 pm

Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

The Giamarga wrote:
Joël of the Fraternity wrote:But which base stats to use for a hamadryad?
IIRC, "hamadryad" was just a 2E term for a dryad with the ability to gain character class levels, an option most standard 2E monsters didn't have. It's an obsolete useage, under 3E/3.5 game rules.

There was also a "hamadryad" that appeared in an old Dragon bestiary of monsters, which had a lot of spell-like abilities appropriate to fey. But if I'm not mistaken, that was back in the 1E days, making it even more of an outdated creature.

The OD&D game supplement "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk" described how a dryad could ritually sever her bond to her tree, in times of extreme need (e.g. the forest is burning to the ground), and then form a new bond with a new tree at a safer location. During the period "between trees" -- very painful and lonely, so they never remained severed for long if they could help it -- such a free-roaming dryad was called a "hamadryad". This may be the ideal use of that term to apply to Souragne's Maiden, as she ought to be free to wander the entire Swamp, both to match her mythological depiction as THE loa of life (which encompasses the whole of the wetland) and to make her more useful as a campaign tool.
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
User avatar
Joël of the FoS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: St-Damien, Québec

Post by Joël of the FoS »

Llana wrote:Another matter I'm interested is whether the Maiden of the Swamp or Misroi get enhanced powers when invoked/addressed as loas?
This wasn't a possibility in Dark Tales, and we didn't go this way for our Souragne report. How would you do calibrate such enhanced powers?

Wouldn't it be more interesting to work the other way around, i.e. define the powers given by the loa to voodan priests or worshippers?

Joël
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
User avatar
Joël of the FoS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: St-Damien, Québec

Post by Joël of the FoS »

For the levels, we figured something quite suitable for her (but 18th level, as it was suggested by someone, seemed way to high for us. We chose to keep the highest level NPCs in Souragne to a near-epic status, but definetively not epic. They have other powers than character levels to make themselves respected :) ).
Rotipher wrote: The OD&D game supplement "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk" described how a dryad could ritually sever her bond to her tree, in times of extreme need (e.g. the forest is burning to the ground), and then form a new bond with a new tree at a safer location. During the period "between trees" -- very painful and lonely, so they never remained severed for long if they could help it -- such a free-roaming dryad was called a "hamadryad". This may be the ideal use of that term to apply to Souragne's Maiden, as she ought to be free to wander the entire Swamp, both to match her mythological depiction as THE loa of life (which encompasses the whole of the wetland) and to make her more useful as a campaign tool.
That could be a good way to explain her past story. But she is now linked to her island in Lac Noir and can't move out of it.

But you think it would be a good idea in her current sketch to have her unbounded from her island? (Misroi would get mad at her, IMHO ;) )

Joël
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
User avatar
Pamela
Sorority Shadow
Sorority Shadow
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:48 am
Location: Have gun, will travel
Contact:

Post by Pamela »

The powers given to the voodan priests and worshippers do interest me as well- don't get me wrong! :D

I was wondering if any powers were conveyed on these two in particular, since I believe that Misroi and the Lady are often assumed to be synonymous to the loas, but that this was not necessarily the case. Do they receive powers from others' mistaken belief? If so, are they then able to convey spells/powers on their believers? I have a VERY vague recollection of a spell in 2e (possibly a quest spell?) which had a group of priests bestowing powers on one chosen person. But then this was a second edition spell, and as you pointed out, it would be difficult to calibrate.
His only real danger is if stupidity is contagious and lethal. In which case, we’re all dead…-Gertrude
User avatar
Rotipher of the FoS
Thieving Crow
Thieving Crow
Posts: 4683
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:18 pm

Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:But you think it would be a good idea in her current sketch to have her unbounded from her island? (Misroi would get mad at her, IMHO ;) )
Perhaps she has the capability to leave the island, but only if she forfeits that portion of her power which is endowed upon her as a loa (i.e. her druidic or voodan abilities can't be used away from home). In effect, she becomes just another (hama)dryad if she strays from her usual location, meaning she's extremely vulnerable and honestly can't do much to affect events in other parts of the domain. She could do it; she just doesn't admit she can, because she assumes she'd be of no use to anyone if she did.

Misroi may or may not know she can leave her island, if she's been afraid to weaken herself so greatly up until now; besides, severing her link to the island would, like a hamadryad's severance from her tree, be very traumatic to her emotionally. (Ever seen that "Saga of the Swamp Thing" storyline where Woodrue lost his link to the Green?) But leaving the Maiden an option of doing so in an extreme crisis would allow DMs more of a chance to use her -- and to develop her personality as an individual NPC, not just a deus ex machina or mythic archetype -- either as proof of the dire seriousness of a situation (if it's bad enough for her to risk leaving the island, it's VERY bad indeed), or as an unique twist on that old chestnut, the "rescue-the-maiden" adventure plot (how often do non-epic PCs get a chance to rescue a [sort of] goddess?), if she gets into trouble while off her home turf.
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
User avatar
Joël of the FoS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: St-Damien, Québec

Post by Joël of the FoS »

Rotipher wrote:
Joël of the Fraternity wrote:But you think it would be a good idea in her current sketch to have her unbounded from her island? (Misroi would get mad at her, IMHO ;) )
Perhaps she has the capability to leave the island, but only if she forfeits that portion of her power which is endowed upon her as a loa (i.e. her druidic or voodan abilities can't be used away from home). In effect, she becomes just another (hama)dryad if she strays from her usual location, meaning she's extremely vulnerable and honestly can't do much to affect events in other parts of the domain. She could do it; she just doesn't admit she can, because she assumes she'd be of no use to anyone if she did.

Misroi may or may not know she can leave her island, if she's been afraid to weaken herself so greatly up until now; besides, severing her link to the island would, like a hamadryad's severance from her tree, be very traumatic to her emotionally. (Ever seen that "Saga of the Swamp Thing" storyline where Woodrue lost his link to the Green?) But leaving the Maiden an option of doing so in an extreme crisis would allow DMs more of a chance to use her -- and to develop her personality as an individual NPC, not just a deus ex machina or mythic archetype -- either as proof of the dire seriousness of a situation (if it's bad enough for her to risk leaving the island, it's VERY bad indeed), or as an unique twist on that old chestnut, the "rescue-the-maiden" adventure plot (how often do non-epic PCs get a chance to rescue a [sort of] goddess?), if she gets into trouble while off her home turf.
Interesting possibility, indeed, I see your point. Do you want to write a sidebar-sized text about it?

Joël
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
User avatar
The Giamarga
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:11 pm
Location: wandering

Post by The Giamarga »

Rotipher wrote:
But which base stats to use for a hamadryad?
IIRC, "hamadryad" was just a 2E term for a dryad with the ability to gain character class levels, an option most standard 2E monsters didn't have. It's an obsolete useage, under 3E/3.5 game rules.
Nope it's a separate monster from MC 11 Forgotten Realms Appendix 2. Though they are noted to be cousins to the dryads and also are linked to an oak tree they are notably different. They could leave the vicinity of the tree for example and are not as possessive of comely males as dryads.

Here's the entry:
MC11 wrote: Hamadryad

Climate/terrain: Temperate, subtropical/forest
Frequency: Very rare
Organization: Solitary

Activity Cycle: Any
Diet: Water and sunlight
Intelligence: High (13-14)

Treasure: Nil
Alignment: Neutral
No. appearing: 1-2

Armor Class: 7
Movement: 15
Hit Dice: 4

THAC0: 17
No. of attacks: 1
Damage: 1-3 (pummel)

Special attacks: See below
Special defenses: See below
Magic Resistance: 75%

Size: M (5 -5 1/2 ' tall)
Morale: steady (11-12)
XP: 650


These woodland spirits appear to be beautiful elven of human females, except that they have deep sparklioning green eyes and long green hair. they are peaceful, quick witted, and polite, but shy. they rarely speak to humans and their ilk. Like their cousins the dryads, each hamadryad is linked to an individual oak tree, however, a hamadryad can leave the vicinity of her tree.

Combat: Hamadryads often carry knifes, daggers or similar weapons, but they shun physical combat and prefer to use their magical abilities instead. Hamadryads can cast hold plants once a day and charm person three times a day ( saving throw has a -3 penalty) as casters at the 11th level of ability. Hamadryads can use, at will, speak with plants, animal friendship, entangle, pass without trace, dimension door (from tree to tree only maximum range 660 yards), quench fire (as the reverse of the 7th-level priest spell fire storm) as casters of the 11th level of ability.

Hamadryads always successfully detect snares and pits and cannot be entangled. A hamadryad can automatically discern the nature of magically created trees or vegetation such as those generated by massmorph, tree or hallucinatory terrain spells. They recognize treants and treant-controlled trees on sight. They can enter any living tree as if using the 6th level priest spell transport via plants, and remain there as long as they wish. If a hamadryad enters a tree containing a spell caster that is using a plant door, pass plant, or transport via plants spell, there always is room in the tree for the hamadryad and she can attempt to charm the spell caster. The saving throw vs. this charmhas a -6 penalty. These special charms can be used at will and in addition to the hamadryad's three charm person spells each day. The special charm even works on druids of 7th level or higher.

Hamadryads are immune to the effects of the call woodland beings spell, but are aware of the spell if they are in its area of effect. Usually (90 %) they travel to the casters location to observe. If the caster's goals are not contrary to the hamadryad's, she serves of her own free will. Hamadryads who are expecting trouble gather a circle of charmed people and firendly animals. While these allies fight, the hamadryad dimension doors from tree to tree, using entangle and charm to disorganize and demoralize foes.

Habitat/Society: Hamadryads are found only in ancient, vast, forests far from civilization. They dislike non-forest environments and almost never willingly leave the woolands.

Hamadryads speak the languages of dryads, elves, pixies, sprites, and sometimes (33%) Common, which they learn from charmed victims. A hamadryad also is 90 % likely to speak the alnguages of centaurs, fauns, treants, and the druids.

Hamadryads seldom argue with other woodland creatres. They are fond of dryads and treants and alwys are on good terms with them. Frequently they use their quench fire ability to aid these creatures. They give all treasure they find to thers dryad firends for safe keeping. They are uncomfortable leaving treasures in their unguarded trees as they do not wish to encourage greedy beings to chop down large numbers of trees in search of wealth. On the other hand, hamadryads know most treasures are eventually found no matter how well hidden and that an itemin a dryad's possession cannot be used to hurt the forest.

Like dryads, hamadryads are attracted to comely males. However, they are not possessive of males who succumb to their charm abilities. They take charmed victims deep into the forest where the victim is compelled to perform some service, usually protecting the trees from woodcutters and the like. When the service is complete, the hamadryad releases the victim near a dryad's tree, where the victim might be charmed again. If not, the victim is frre to leave the forest.

Ecology: Hamadryads do not eat. they get all the nourishment they need from sunlight, through the chlorophyll in their hair and from the water they drink. They prefer fresh water from springs or well, but can survive on water that has been fouled by human or animal wastes. A hamadryad who is imprisoned indoors will die of starvation in 10-20 days unless given access to sunlight for at least one hour a day. A hamadryad shorn of her hair starves unless she is allowed to regrow her hais.

A hamadryad's tree is always huge and old, but does not radiate magic or show other signs of its true nature, though careful questioning with a speak with plants spell probably wil reveal the tree for what it is.
Here's what the incredibly useful Worlds of Sulerin Creature index has to say about the hamadryad:
Name CR Sources
Hamadryad 5 Creature Collection 1, Monstrous Compendium Annual 3, Forgotten Realms 2 (MC11), Lankhmar City of Adventure


And finally here's the Hamadryad's Creature Catalog 3E conversion and the accompanying thread with conversion notes. Here's another Creature Catalog conversion of the Hamadryad, which I like better than the one above.

There was also a "hamadryad" that appeared in an old Dragon bestiary of monsters, which had a lot of spell-like abilities appropriate to fey. But if I'm not mistaken, that was back in the 1E days, making it even more of an outdated creature.
Ahh but the 1E sources are the most meaty ones often. Flavour wise and even as rules wise inspiration for 3E conversions.
The OD&D game supplement "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk" described how a dryad could ritually sever her bond to her tree, in times of extreme need (e.g. the forest is burning to the ground), and then form a new bond with a new tree at a safer location. During the period "between trees" -- very painful and lonely, so they never remained severed for long if they could help it -- such a free-roaming dryad was called a "hamadryad". This may be the ideal use of that term to apply to Souragne's Maiden, as she ought to be free to wander the entire Swamp, both to match her mythological depiction as THE loa of life (which encompasses the whole of the wetland) and to make her more useful as a campaign tool.
I'll have to read that one up. Fits with the 2E description from MC 11 though.
Last edited by The Giamarga on Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:49 pm, edited 7 times in total.
User avatar
The Giamarga
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:11 pm
Location: wandering

Post by The Giamarga »

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:For the levels, we figured something quite suitable for her (but 18th level, as it was suggested by someone, seemed way to high for us. We chose to keep the highest level NPCs in Souragne to a near-epic status, but definetively not epic. They have other powers than character levels to make themselves respected :) ).
Rotipher wrote: The OD&D game supplement "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk" described how a dryad could ritually sever her bond to her tree, in times of extreme need (e.g. the forest is burning to the ground), and then form a new bond with a new tree at a safer location. During the period "between trees" -- very painful and lonely, so they never remained severed for long if they could help it -- such a free-roaming dryad was called a "hamadryad". This may be the ideal use of that term to apply to Souragne's Maiden, as she ought to be free to wander the entire Swamp, both to match her mythological depiction as THE loa of life (which encompasses the whole of the wetland) and to make her more useful as a campaign tool.
That could be a good way to explain her past story. But she is now linked to her island in Lac Noir and can't move out of it.

But you think it would be a good idea in her current sketch to have her unbounded from her island? (Misroi would get mad at her, IMHO ;) )

Joël
As a Hamadryad she isn't really bound to the location of her tree. (See the above post.)

Also I did not advise an 18th level build for her. Those were just her 2E multiclass stats and appr. equivalent to overall 10th or 11th level in 2E. After the 3E conversion rules and 9th/9th level 2E multiclass character is converted to CL 12 (9+9/3). I'm not even sure if she should be multiclassed in 3E, as she gets lots of spell like abilities from her monster levels already and the voodan class grants access to both spell lists. (Sorcerer and druid).
User avatar
The Giamarga
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:11 pm
Location: wandering

Post by The Giamarga »

All that dryad talk gave me some ideas. Is there already the obligatory Ravenloft-twist on a certain (Hama)dryad abducting a comely male adventure? If not there probably should be.

Also are there any treants in Souragne? If yes are they untainted or evil-icky-Ravenloft version treants ? How does The Maiden relate to it/them?
User avatar
Hell_Born
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 736
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by Hell_Born »

From what I recall in Dance of the Dead, there are Treants in Souragne, both Dread and Normal. The Normal Treants can only be found in the home-territory of the Lady, where the polluting essence of Ravenloft is purified by her presence, and the Dread Treants are found everywhere else in the swamp.

In fact, one way to look at the Lady might be as a Nature-Aligned Good Outsider, whose Twisting has the effect of removing the polluting "taint" that affects the rest of Ravenloft.
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
William Blackmoor
Arch-villain
Arch-villain
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by William Blackmoor »

@Hamadryad:
Maybe i overead it and somebody else mentioned it already:

There ist a 3rd Edition Hamadryad. It can be found on page 102 of Creature Collection I by White Wolf/SSS (part of the Scarred Lands Line).
There is also a subtype calld Swamp Hamadryad.

Will there be other Hamadryads in Sourange beside the Maiden of the Swamp?
User avatar
Joël of the FoS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: St-Damien, Québec

Post by Joël of the FoS »

The report's progress is fine. Meanwhile, please find hereafter the list of credits for the Souragne report.

Please let me know if there is a mistake in your name!

(the list has been edited to be pretty vague, so not too many spoilers here …, but it might keep some guessing all nite)

Nicholas Burke (aka Undead Cabbage) and David Moran (aka Bluebomber4evr): Monster list double check
Xavier Cattarinich (aka TwiceBorn): Adventure hooks – (…), demonic bal aftermath and trade help hook; Belenfant and Desjardins plantation; Belief: Souragne’s misty border: risk, profit, and Liberté, and related adventure hook; (…); Dread Possibility – Mordu; Excerpts from books in history chapter; Interview: Les Tristepas
David Cicalese (aka Jasper): Leeches
Mark Graydon (aka Mortavius): (…) ; Dread Possibility – Bloody Water
Paul Karoubas (aka Moral Machivelli): Dread Possibility – the Oracle
Chris Parsons: Hallie-Bourbonne plantation; various establishments and ideas for Port d’Elhour, Captain Guy Bourbonne and food notes
Leandro Zerbinatti de Oliveira (aka Lucifer Abaddon) – Dread Possibility – the Maiden’s Children
Andrew Pavlides (aka alhoon): New spells
Pamela Rose (aka Gertrude Kingsley, Llana): Ezra worship history, Larouche and Lefebvre plantation
Stephen Sale (aka Brothersale): Belief: Cabrit sans cor'; (…); Dread Possibility – The Red Moon
Vannax: Swamp Shoes
Glim : Van Schelm plantation

Map of Souragne is based on the Mordent Cartographic Society’s work

Commissioned art:
Anton Misroi on the city walls, (…) – Nicholas Burke (aka Undead Cabbage)
Anton Misroi portrait – David Gibson
Chicken Bone, Larissa Snowmane, (…), Man at night in the swamp – Isabella P.
Vévé drawings – Dion Fernandez
Last edited by Joël of the FoS on Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
User avatar
Bluebomber4evr
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: United States of Whatever
Contact:

Post by Bluebomber4evr »

Well since everyone else is giving their real name, I'll give mine. You can credit me as David Moran (aka Bluebomber4evr) :)
Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002.
Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist Persistent World for Neverwinter Nights: www.nwnravenloft.com
User avatar
alhoon
Invisible Menace
Invisible Menace
Posts: 9088
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Chania or Athens // Greece

Post by alhoon »

Wooo! We will have art too!
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
User avatar
Joël of the FoS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: St-Damien, Québec

Post by Joël of the FoS »

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Well since everyone else is giving their real name, I'll give mine. You can credit me as David Moran (aka Bluebomber4evr) :)
OK, done!

Joël
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
Post Reply