Amber Wastes Gazetteer

[Mistmaster]

Nothing ever suggest to me Diamabel was the founder of the religion. I think I'll make him a Neutral character and bestow darklordship on someone other.

[KingCorn]

I'm trying to do it in the style of the FoS netbooks, with the same darklords but changes to details.

[Mistmaster]

Legit; I instead will use Pharazia to put my version of Aladdin.

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

One idea I had to limit the Muhammad allusions a little bit is to have him not be the founder of his religion, but merely a rather fervent follower of the unnamed faith, a leader of a much larger army group. His acts comes from a deep desire to be an angel and serve at the side of his god (sorta like Alexander Anderson from Hellsing). So he kills his father, a military leader, as he feels he is more fit to lead a unit of a crusading army, that the higher he climbs the closer he is to his god. So he commits some more acts of sabotage and assassination against people with authority to do just that, eventually leading a great crusade of his own. Then he starts commiting atrocities and then gets sent into the mists. This isn't a great fix, but this is just off the top of my head.

Nothing ever suggest to me Diamabel was the founder of the religion.

I have looked over the Pharazia entry in Domains of Dread (pages 105-107), and it is not completely clear whether Diamabel's religion was invented by him or co-opted by him. It could be that he developed it from the tales his nanny told him about "faraway lands where people who lived clean and healthy lives were converted into beings of pure light," or he may have drawn on this while interpreting an established religion.

With or without changing any particular details of his past, it may be helpful to give his religion a life beyond him. Going with the idea that his faith existed before him, it would be good to flesh out its nature and make its original form just and good. That way, the faith itself is not an unfavorable representation of anything, and it can have practitioners (probably among the nomads) who work against Diamabel's oppressive perversion of it.

[ewancummins]

Diamabel's religion seems more like some weird Gnostic cult than anything else from history. I don't see any allusion to Islam beyond the later decision to toss in some quasiArab names.
Diamabel sounds more Syraic-Caananite Hebrew and Pharazia vaguely Hellenistic Persian.

[ewancummins]

So that's my suggestion if you are concerned about Diamabel seeming to be in any way a reference to the prophet Muhammad-- just ditch the Arabic names. So far as I can tell that's the only meaningful link. Muhammad was of course not a nomad.

Diamabel's religion is not actually monotheistic, is it? I'll have to look in Islands of Terror. I was under the impression that it was focused on human Ascension to some state of pure light by avoiding all kinds of pollution and corruption without any specific reference to the worship of a particular deity. Another way to further distance Diamabel for any unfortunate historical allusions you see that you think are bad for game play would be the further develop the religion along those lines. So it will be puritanical and strict as many different cults and sects in history have been but it won't bear any resemblance theologically to the world religion in question.
And you might stick idols of Diamabel's angelic form all over the place with people worshipping the idols as images of the Ascended One. A mortal man, born in filth, who has become not a god but a perfected and purified angelic human.

[The Lesser Evil]

Kind of building on ewencumming's ideas of focusing on human->angel apotheosis, what if we interpreted was interpreted Diamabel considering himself more of an esoteric philosopher rather than a theologian or priest (and indeed became vehemently insulted if you insisted on calling him the latter two terms)? He might profess (or at least claim to profess) little care about that specific deities you worship, but instead the ways in which you worshiped them. Behavior and practical social doctrine, rather than specific cosmology or theological concepts of the hereafter. He may see such concepts as distractions from what really matters: the practical implications of one's day to day behavior.

We could spin Diamabel as a sort of totalitarian philosopher ostensibly bent towards utopian goals, possibly with a vaguely gnostic flare. We are told in Domains of Dread that he came from the nomads, growing up on tales of people from distant lands becoming luminous, heavenly beings in the flesh through "clean and healthy" living (as described in DoD p. 106), the focus on clean and healthy living sounding vaguely reminiscent of a direr, metaphysical version of John Kellogg and his healthy living movement. To Diamabel, the world was a dirty, unrefined place to which needed "cleansing". Rather than interpreting that as merely the stereotype of "kill the infidels", we could view it more as creating a utopian society where people could, through right behavior and right action, transcend the weaknesses of their fleshy bodies and become something greater. Like his focus is creating, a clean, utopian heaven on earth rather than the relationship to external powers like gods. In a sense, Diamabel would be a thinker of an entirely earthly bent but also very anti-materliastic.

In the above conception, evil seeps in not only in the means of convincing the masses ad restructuring society but also in how Diamabel believes that enlightenment can be achieved. In his view, pleasures of the flesh bind one to the filth and unrefined elements of the world, and these can only be removed by expulsion (as in, punishment). Thus, in order to assure people transform into their proper states as celestial beings, the state or tribe must assert absolute control over the individual's behavior, else the degenerate individuals that make up the majority of the society backslide into decadence. Herein comes the value of confession to the representatives of the right order, as from a reinforcement perspective it helps the monitoring of the people's behavior. In essence, his advocacy for firm state control mirrors that of the legalism philosophy advocated by the Chinese Qin dynasty. Supporting this interpretation, we are told that the people of Phiraz are taught to read, such that they may be inculcated with the teachings of Diamabel’s philosophies. In this context, literacy is seen as a method of indoctrination rather than of intellectual freedom. Of course, Diamabel, as the only “transcended” being, enjoys a monopoly in determining what is right behavior.

[KingCorn]

Kind of building on ewencumming's ideas of focusing on human->angel apotheosis, what if we interpreted was interpreted Diamabel considering himself more of an esoteric philosopher rather than a theologian or priest (and indeed became vehemently insulted if you insisted on calling him the latter two terms)? He might profess (or at least claim to profess) little care about that specific deities you worship, but instead the ways in which you worshiped them. Behavior and practical social doctrine, rather than specific cosmology or theological concepts of the hereafter. He may see such concepts as distractions from what really matters: the practical implications of one's day to day behavior.

We could spin Diamabel as a sort of totalitarian philosopher ostensibly bent towards utopian goals, possibly with a vaguely gnostic flare. We are told in Domains of Dread that he came from the nomads, growing up on tales of people from distant lands becoming luminous, heavenly beings in the flesh through "clean and healthy" living (as described in DoD p. 106), the focus on clean and healthy living sounding vaguely reminiscent of a direr, metaphysical version of John Kellogg and his healthy living movement. To Diamabel, the world was a dirty, unrefined place to which needed "cleansing". Rather than interpreting that as merely the stereotype of "kill the infidels", we could view it more as creating a utopian society where people could, through right behavior and right action, transcend the weaknesses of their fleshy bodies and become something greater. Like his focus is creating, a clean, utopian heaven on earth rather than the relationship to external powers like gods. In a sense, Diamabel would be a thinker of an entirely earthly bent but also very anti-materliastic.

In the above conception, evil seeps in not only in the means of convincing the masses ad restructuring society but also in how Diamabel believes that enlightenment can be achieved. In his view, pleasures of the flesh bind one to the filth and unrefined elements of the world, and these can only be removed by expulsion (as in, punishment). Thus, in order to assure people transform into their proper states as celestial beings, the state or tribe must assert absolute control over the individual's behavior, else the degenerate individuals that make up the majority of the society backslide into decadence. Herein comes the value of confession to the representatives of the right order, as from a reinforcement perspective it helps the monitoring of the people's behavior. In essence, his advocacy for firm state control mirrors that of the legalism philosophy advocated by the Chinese Qin dynasty. Supporting this interpretation, we are told that the people of Phiraz are taught to read, such that they may be inculcated with the teachings of Diamabel’s philosophies. In this context, literacy is seen as a method of indoctrination rather than of intellectual freedom. Of course, Diamabel, as the only “transcended” being, enjoys a monopoly in determining what is right behavior.

That actually helps alot in regards to his behavior and his hatred of the nomads, for he thinks that going solely through ritual and treating worship as a solely transactional thing like they do with jinn is improper, not the worship of jinn themselves. It could also show the religious freedom that was found in the middle east during the golden age of islam: You can worship ezra, the lawgiver, whoever you want. But you must do it the proper way (ie. the Diambel way)

[Mistmaster]

Frankly, mote then Muhammad Duamabel always reminded me Al-Wahab.

[ewancummins]

EDIT

I was wrong.

The Islands of Terror entry does make mention of 'his god', although it is left quite vague.

Diamabel is a fighter, not any sort of priest.

There is mention of the people being ''gods-fearing.'' I assume that means polytheism.



The Mistipedia described the three conflicting versions of the religion.

Personally I like the 3E version with no deity and no clerics. The "confessors" are a bunch of thugs with scourges.
Diamabel is revered as a godlike protector.

[KingCorn]

Maybe I'll just focus on Phirazia itself and what I think would work for it, then use that to build Diambel.
In terms of Phirazia itself, I want to balance Arabian Nights/Al-Qadim stuff with real-life Islamic Golden Age stuff, as well as a little persian culture. Its populace is educated in math, sciences, alchemy, and all that. There's magic, but its subdued and mostly found among the nomads or Hazlani immigrants/merchants, and magic is assumed to be the result of deals with jinn, while miracles are products of devotion to the teachings of Diambel. Trade occurs, but I'm having trouble figuring out how that could work considering Diambel hates the nomads (though maybe he just hates the rebelious ones). Overall, I want it as the place most everyone from the core who wants to explore the Amber Wastes has to go through. Mainly, I'm building Phirazia around how NeoTiamat presented it in the Eye of Anubis campaign.

Sebua I want as its presented: a land of oasis and cursed cities. This is where you would find the Nameless City from H.P. Lovecraft, or the City of Brass as it was in 1001 Arabian Nights (with weird corpses automatons) and off course Tiyet's estate. Its a place filled with mysterious ruins, with new ones to uncover. Its ruins with a mix of egyptian/persian/arabian themes.

Har'Akir I want as real serious Egypt vibes, with nothing but mummies, dead Pharaohs, and fallen monuments. No jinn, no haunted cities. Just tombs, pyramids, and gods.

As for the themes of the realms, I'm thinking a mix of Wonders Lost in Time, and Lands Cursed/Abandoned by the Gods. I want to ratchet up just how the Dark Powers can mess with time, where the discoveries bring up more questions than answers. False history, true history, and lost history just blur together. I also want the land to feel both close to, yet far away from, the gods. Cause each Darklord commited some act against the gods: Ankhetepot killed the priests of ra and demanded the gods make him immortal, Tiyet fell in love with the priest of and evil god and killed a pharaoh, and Diambel commited acts of horrible violence in the name of his god and a desire to be an angel.

[ewancummins]

I like the feral kids of Sebua. Will you do anything with them?

[KingCorn]

I like the feral kids of Sebua. Will you do anything with them?

I'm keep them, just not sure what else I'll do with them. I'm just at the concept stage.

[Mischief]

I have a write-up about a combined Earth-Air Paraelemental plane based on a giant desert, but these two concepts might be of interest to you.
The first is a sea of sand that shifts with sandstorms and sand-currents and uncovers buried ruins. Scrap-picking civilizations live on the outcroppings of stable rocks at the edges and rush to exploit ruins and wreckages before they are covered up again. All sorts of confusing and mysterious things are found and sold in local markets or taken downriver by vendors who sometimes don't even know what they are selling. Perhaps the Dark Powers dump a lot of garbage here from failed domains or bits of lands they don't want to keep when they pull them into the demiplane.
The second is a desert-based underdark carved out sandstone. Sand whirlpools can suck people down from the surface and sand geysers can mark major caverns.

In order to confuse the time issue, you might take a page from Forlorn and have ruins that exist in several time states simultaneously. Perhaps the ancient inhabitants even leave to trade and it is simply accepted that time runs in circles.

[kourkenko]

I've always found problematic the canon clusters (beside the shadowlands perhaps) in how the domains were created just to be a week end in hell and it's very obvious in the Amber Wastes. The darklords have no projects or goals whether long or short term, they have almost no interactions between them or their population.
It's why they must be rewritten to the core and Diamabel is the hardest of them but very good ideas are presented in this thread ^^.