Café de Nuit

... I just got this horrible mental image of Vistani taking desperate people's money to ferry them across, only to dump them in a place certain to kill them. Like the snowy wastes of Vorostokov or the Sebuan desert. Or Castle Ravenloft. The local Darklord might even pay them for 'keeping their larder stocked'.

I wonder if the little used concept of the conjunction (aside from the Grand Conjunction) and apply that here except it's domain to domain rather than Ravenloft/nonRavenloft. Perhaps there's even a cyclical alignment of the domains at certain times? And perhaps you'd have astrologer guys like the Omen Watchers or Isodard Yvoire trying to calculate/discern when these inter-domain conjunctions/alignments occur?

Rock wrote:... I just got this horrible mental image...

You misspelled "beautiful," Rock.

— onmyoji

onmyoji wrote:

Rock wrote:... I just got this horrible mental image...

You misspelled "beautiful," Rock.

— onmyoji

Nah. :-/ What coyotes to do to their victims is awful.

Rock wrote:Nah. :-/ What coyotes to do to their victims is awful.

Yes it is, but to lighten things up a bit...

Attack of conscience.

Whatever the DM comes up with to enable the PCs to travel from domain to domain, I think it would be a mistake to rely too heavily on one or two means. ie: Vistani are great, but overuse will only make them glorified riverboat skippers, and straight-up boring.

The groans and jokes from your players at the table will eventually build up to cheesy intros to whatever horror you got lined up to throw at the PCs. And once that ball starts rolling it can be hard to stop. Of course, if you want lighthearted horror, then by all means inject it. Do what thou wilt.

I have the feeling that when Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft does come out then this very issue will be a constant question on the minds of DMs (the Black Box somewhat side-stepped this by including the Core). Hopefully the developers had the foresight to see this issue and went out of their way to address it in the book.

It also should lead to a multitude of patchworked Cores, as it'll be easier (less prep work for the DM).to do that than come up with a unique entrypoint for every domain that you want the PCs to explore. That, and it just makes more sense if you want to long haul Ravenloft. Save the queer intros for those domains off the beaten track.

Speaking for myself (yeah, water's wet), this DIY Ravenloft is, aside from seeing a new generation's interpretation of the concept of RL (which I'm wary of, to be honest, but at the time curious), what I'm most interested in. Through canon (design/print) it eliminates the whole canon versus non-canon crap that can and does so often put knots into the sharing of ideas in communities like this one (1). It'll better include and encourage thinking outside the box. In that less is more type way. No more "yeah but in X it's written ABC". Or, "No, Y is said to be Z". What a great olive branch to creativity. Especially horror in D&D, through Ravenloft...

1: this place is better than any other place I've been to when it comes to embracing "non-canon" ideas. Hell, it promotes them through netbooks. There is still a lot of canon slavery here, but it's not a clog in the pipe when it comes to expression of creativity. The above statement is a general statement aimed at established D&D campaign settings and the generally-speaking inability of some of its fans to accept anything or very little without an official logo or trademark.

Rock wrote:Nah. :-/ What coyotes to do to their victims is awful.

Indeed. But in terms of DMing, that's a pretty great idea. That's what I was attempting to highlight.

— onmyoji

Five wrote:Whatever the DM comes up with to enable the PCs to travel from domain to domain, I think it would be a mistake to rely too heavily on one or two means. ie: Vistani are great, but overuse will only make them glorified riverboat skippers, and straight-up boring.

The groans and jokes from your players at the table will eventually build up to cheesy intros to whatever horror you got lined up to throw at the PCs. And once that ball starts rolling it can be hard to stop. Of course, if you want lighthearted horror, then by all means inject it. Do what thou wilt.

I have the feeling that when Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft does come out then this very issue will be a constant question on the minds of DMs (the Black Box somewhat side-stepped this by including the Core). Hopefully the developers had the foresight to see this issue and went out of their way to address it in the book.

It also should lead to a multitude of patchworked Cores, as it'll be easier (less prep work for the DM).to do that than come up with a unique entrypoint for every domain that you want the PCs to explore. That, and it just makes more sense if you want to long haul Ravenloft. Save the queer intros for those domains off the beaten track.

Speaking for myself (yeah, water's wet), this DIY Ravenloft is, aside from seeing a new generation's interpretation of the concept of RL (which I'm wary of, to be honest, but at the time curious), what I'm most interested in. Through canon (design/print) it eliminates the whole canon versus non-canon crap that can and does so often put knots into the sharing of ideas in communities like this one (1). It'll better include and encourage thinking outside the box. In that less is more type way. No more "yeah but in X it's written ABC". Or, "No, Y is said to be Z". What a great olive branch to creativity. Especially horror in D&D, through Ravenloft...

1: this place is better than any other place I've been to when it comes to embracing "non-canon" ideas. Hell, it promotes them through netbooks. There is still a lot of canon slavery here, but it's not a clog in the pipe when it comes to expression of creativity. The above statement is a general statement aimed at established D&D campaign settings and the generally-speaking inability of some of its fans to accept anything or very little without an official logo or trademark.

Excellent point re: overusing the Vistani. That's one reason I tried to avoid them in my original post. However, I wouldn't be surprised if WotC *did* include specific entry points for each domain (they did after all for Barovia in CoS).

And as a new DM who describes himself as a "slave to canon," I definitely appreciate the embracing of non-canon ideas here as well, though (at least in my travels) I've seen more expansions on canon than outright alternatives to it. So far, I've only ever altered canonical dates and events when they just don't make sense, or when I can tell a better/deeper story by amending things ever-so-slightly. Otherwise, it's a game of seeing two conflicting things and asking myself "How is this true?"

— onmyoji

For domains that have the faith in it, what if the clergy of Ezra had a task of guiding people through the mists? Say a traveller wants to get from Borca to Mordent, they can beseech their local Church of Ezra and ask a priest of Ezra to pray for them, or to accompany them through the mists. Depending on how corrupt the church is, this can range from a kindly priest who guides people through the mists to aid them or a corrupt priest who could charge an arm and a leg for their services (and they might not care if the sod ends up in the right place or not).

Aside from that, I can imagine some very skilled scholars and navigators being able to provide something close to cartographic or guide services. I imagine that any member of the actual Fraternity of Shadows might have a record of a few mistways or tricks to get through certain parts of the mist.

Progressions of Ezran priests could also be regular pilgrimages, connecting the major sites of Ezra's faith.
So they'd be huge affairs. Lots of people involved, lots of opportunities to melt into the crowd, lots of expense involved, lots of pomp and ceremony, and a lot of predators lurking on the edges in hopes of snatching stragglers or infiltrating the procession. Balancing this would be the fact that there would be several mid- to high-ranking Clerics and church security there to keep the peace and protect the faithful, as well as guide them through the Mists.
PC's could be hired on as additional muscle.

Such pilgrimages would connect all locations with a major Ezran presence -- Borca, Darkon, Dementlieu, Mordent, possibly Richemulot, possibly Souragne (depending on whether you accept netbook-canon), any home-brewed Islands and Clusters where the faith has a major presence -- but would run on a strict schedule; holy days are not malleable, after all. Depending on whether the church is aware of Darkon's residential curse, it could be an extremely rigid schedule.
Participants would at least have to make a show of praying and offering alms at the major shrines, or risk forfeiting their place in the procession.
Anyone who makes too much of a ruckus or fails to protect the faithful could risk being blacklisted for future pilgrimages, or even excommunicated from the grace of Ezra.

These pilgrimages would require cooperation between the four major sects, too, which allows for a lot of political and ecclesiastical arguing and intrigue.
* Dominic D'Honaire could be trying to worm his influence into the pilgrimages in an effort to influence the faith of Ezra as a whole.
* Imagine Azalin trying to exert his authority over the pilgrimages as long as they are in Darkon, using Kargat to hassle anyone he considers to be either troublesome or weak enough to yield.
* Anton Misroi could get twitchy every time a large number of faithful comes stomping into his Island domain to visit the shrine of Notre Mêre des Brûmes, leading to infrequent zombie uprisings. Depending on how the Ezrans respond, this could lead to tensions with the native people of Souragne.
* Jacqueline Renier could decide to use the pilgrimages as a vector for her Becoming Plague.
* Godefroy could be dogging the heels of every pilgrimage to pass through his territory, trying to arrange for deaths so he can snap up powerful souls.
And then there will be independent players. The Red Widow who considers the pilgrimages an all-you-can-eat bar of potential mates. The Dread Doppelganger on the run from Sodo, who has been masquerading as a member of the organizational staff and been on the move from church to shrine for years. And so on and so forth.

onmyoji wrote:Hey all!

Since more than a few of us are dismayed by the idea of independent domains in the forthcoming new and fractured 5E Core, I thought I'd just ask and see if anyone had thought of any creative ways to move from one domain to another if they're all separated now.

Personally, I would Flesh-golem graft a new core together.
I mean, if most of the domains are detailed, I would stick them together. And I may use the OLD ones if I prefer them. A zombie apocalypse Falkovnia is not to my liking although in a smaller scale I may go for "And one day Azalin said, 'let's give something for the mercenary's thugs to beat instead of their soldiers.' and a few months later parts of Falkovnia are under zombie hands" or something. I will have to wait and see.

The good thing with 5e is that it is VERY backwards compatible. If you prefer 3e or 2e stuff, you swap it out. With the new domains being isolated, you can easily ignore changes to other domains if you have to and give a reason for the borders being kinda-closed. Or not explain it and focus on the domain.