Café de Nuit

Yeah, those are probably the exact adjustments I will make.

Mephisto wrote:When I played the adventure one PC didn't survive and in the second part which was assassinating G that PC was a thrall of D. Also an NPC who was part of the group (so they would be 4) was transformed by the magical coffin, D manipulated them into thinking that to save the NPC they had to destroy G.

Wow! Sounds super interesting! I only have three players, but they've had either Venrith Chole (Kargat werewolf, whom they don't know is a werewolf) or Akriel (wolfwere they also don't know is a wolfwere) with them more or less since the beginning.

— onmyoji

onmyoji wrote:Wow! Sounds super interesting! I only have three players, but they've had either Venrith Chole (Kargat werewolf, whom they don't know is a werewolf) or Akriel (wolfwere they also don't know is a wolfwere) with them more or less since the beginning.

That raises a question...
Can a werewolf or wolfwere be turned into a vampire? As far as undead go, I am positive about monstrous ghosts, mummies, zombies, parts for constructs. But I believe that an ex-monster vampire or lich should be a rare phenomenon.
For vampires there are so many legends? or at least pop culture presentations of vampire-werewolf wars that makes it near to impossible in my mind for a werewolf vampire.
Then again that coffin could be a magical item that creates these exceptions.

I 've bought this vampire sarcophagus for the magical one. Looks good eh?

Mephisto wrote:

onmyoji wrote:Wow! Sounds super interesting! I only have three players, but they've had either Venrith Chole (Kargat werewolf, whom they don't know is a werewolf) or Akriel (wolfwere they also don't know is a wolfwere) with them more or less since the beginning.

That raises a question...
Can a werewolf or wolfwere be turned into a vampire? As far as undead go, I am positive about monstrous ghosts, mummies, zombies, parts for constructs. But I believe that an ex-monster vampire or lich should be a rare phenomenon.
For vampires there are so many legends? or at least pop culture presentations of vampire-werewolf wars that makes it near to impossible in my mind for a werewolf vampire.
Then again that coffin could be a magical item that creates these exceptions.

By 3.5e rules, the vampire template can be created from a humanoid or monstrous humanoid. A lycanthrope must be a humanoid or giant, and just gains the shapechanger subtype upon application of the template, so a humanoid werewolf is fully eligible to become a vampire. A wolfwere is an animal, and cannot become a vampire.

The lich template can be applied to any humanoid, so a humanoid werewolf could become a lich as well.

Of course, there are many specialized exceptions to these restrictions (illithid vampire, alhoon lich, and lichfiend in Libris Mortis, and vampiric dragon and dracolich from Draconomicon), so the actual limits depend on the Dungeon Master. Some of the templates aren't appropriate for certain creatures and need adaptation, and there are some creatures that technically don't qualify for certain templates even though there is no mechanical issue.

A Wolfwere is a magical beast to be exact.

Mephisto wrote:That raises a question...
Can a werewolf or wolfwere be turned into a vampire? As far as undead go, I am positive about monstrous ghosts, mummies, zombies, parts for constructs. But I believe that an ex-monster vampire or lich should be a rare phenomenon.
For vampires there are so many legends? or at least pop culture presentations of vampire-werewolf wars that makes it near to impossible in my mind for a werewolf vampire.
Then again that coffin could be a magical item that creates these exceptions.

I have no idea how that works mechanically in D&D. Pathfinder is extremely good about making templates for were-, vampiric, etc. characters/enemies/etc., so it would work just fine mechanically.

In terms of narrative, I've always believed that one can be both, but only in one direction. If you become a werewolf first, then a vampire, you're good. But if you become a vampire first, your body technically dies, so I would imagine you're no longer affected by any kind of lycanthropic disease.

As far as ex-monster vampires and werewolves, keep in mind the vampire illithids associated with Lyssa von Zarovich. Alhoons (mindflayer quasi-liches) are also canonical and have a 5E Bestiary entry. Ilithiliches (mindflayer full-liches) are harder, but easy enough to do in 5E by slapping a lich template on a mindflayer. I haven't looked into other former monsters becoming vampires or liches, but this is definitely a well-known (albeit rare) one.

EDIT: Oh yeah. Of course, dracoliches.

— onmyoji

Mistmaster wrote:A Wolfwere is a magical beast to be exact.

A wolfwere should be a magical beast---after all, the jackalwere in the Fiend Folio is---but in Denizens of Dread, it is listed as having the animal type. That should probably be listed as errata.

Either way, that makes it ineligible for the vampire and lich templates under the core rules. An exception to one of these could make for an interesting villain.

It is also ineligible for the lycanthrope template, which is good since the two don't get along. However, if a wolfwere is taken to be an animal, then it technically could be used as the base animal when applying the lycanthrope template to another creature. That seems a bit ridiculous though.