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Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:18 pm
by Manofevil
Wow! I just found some Nazi psychos who I thought worthy of equivalents that could suffer Ravenloft damnation. I wasn't expecting this thread to spawn the posting of historical gold like that. Great job Meph.
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:51 pm
by Manofevil
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:57 am
by Manofevil
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:48 am
by Manofevil
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:00 am
by Mephisto of the FoS
Well when statistically around 1% of the (world) general population are psychopaths and 4% are sociopaths, you will find many more of these. The Nazi regime endorsed their violent practices and delusional sense of superiority, making them obvious, since there was no fear of retribution (unless they stole from the state itself).
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:24 am
by Five
For me, Ravenloft was always about highlighting evil and presenting said evil to the table as a series of challenges for them to contemplate. Sometimes the fight was futile, sometimes it led to conditional victory. Sometimes the fight was external, sometimes it was internal. Etc etc.
Where I got my inspiration from for these episodic evils is irrelevant.
Our history is filled with cultures, groups, and individuals that are (or have been) straight up predatory monsters. And that term falls short in describing their very real and sometimes far-reaching atrocities. Regardless, history is a limitless source of inspiration for a setting such as Ravenloft, where it is arguably neccessary for DMs to both analyse and present/put a face to such evil to challenge our (at one point in the setting's run) morally-opposite and vastly outnumbered players/player characters for their morality play.
Falkovnia getting more individuals wreathed in Nazi blood cloaks? Why not? The system they worked under encouraged such wicked and atrocious behaviours, so its potential for exploitation is that much larger. To exclude them from the entertainment-based mash-up that we oftentimes do is or may be a lost opportunity for certain DMs looking for particular shades of evil to explore/entertain. If that means more editing, such as removing the insignia that those real individuals blatantly operated under, thus focusing on their actions as opposed to affiliation, then so be it. Using such filters, purifying your evil, can only help keep your personal version of Ravenloft unique (as far as inspiration- reimagining can go). That's not to say that a systematic, large-scale cult-culture of destruction doesn't have a place in Ravenloft...!
I too thought the 3E mould of Falkovnia was too blatantly based on real history back when I first read of it, but these days I'm glad of it for it presented Falkovnia in a new light. As an alternate version of realm that was originally presented. It was just another option on the menu for my imagination. And the more options we have as DMs to explore before we begin our etching of details the better, as far as I'm concerned anyway.
Filter our inspiration; we'll end up where we want to be without wasting words and time explaining our choices to our audience before or after the session!
Though sometimes a "Where's Waldo"/easter egg moment is a fun reveal to be had too. Depends on sensitivity of others I spose.
Either way, use what works for you and trim what don't. Bring in the evil to be (maybe) cut down! Muck the rest.
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:31 pm
by Manofevil
Thank you Five. That's exactly what I'm going for here.
I realize that most of the people in the videos I've posted are good for being henchpersons at best but I feel that that is a very good piece of flavor to add. Remember that depraved individuals with a certain level of charisma tend to attract people of similar type. Others will join just because they enjoy the work like the examples above. It is also possible to cultivate people of such depravity as Hitler and Himmler proved. During the international slave trade, slave ships were crewed by cruel men because captains and companies made a point of finding this certain type of man that's mean but not mutinous. Supporting cast is just as important as leads.
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:04 pm
by Five
I'd say that there are times where support cast is more important than the lead antagonists. They are oftentimes the introduction or hint to a particular echo of evil that lies in wait for our heroes, the initial rev of tension, the rock that is found (and flipped), blah blah. Call it what you will. Point being, without them as flesh, our true villains (our avatar for whatever face of evil we are intending to expose) would be somehow less than. Double-down if spread or taint of evil is part of the design.
And given the undying nature of our favourite cursed SoBs, that would (or could) be a major faux pas for us as DMs to have to swallow.
Good points, Manofevil. Funny enough, when I was writing my first response I was thinking, among other examples, of the East India Company.
Maybe it'd be a cool development to have Falkovnia develop similar traits. Or "hidden" amongst the signatories of the Treaty of the Four Towers, if you'd prefer more subtlety/grey areas to play in...?
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:08 pm
by Rock of the Fraternity
If you're talking East India Trading Co., then the Boitsi Trading Company (Borca; Ivana Boritsi's family) and Carlysle Trading Company (Zherisia; dread doppelgangers) seem like plausible stand-ins.
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:26 pm
by Five
True. They got the backing (plus at the least limited resources from their defence package co-signs). But does Borca have enough grit for colonisation? Slaves as fuel for their envisioned economic engine of the Core (and possibly beyond)? Political savvy, for sure. They do have several ingredients at hand.
Could they push to materialise the massive (intended) company but cook the books on the sly and behind the other's backs?
Several back door deals could be cut, and probably are already cut, between the nations. So, who knows what, and who's in the dark? It's highly doubtful that anybody knows the true plan.
Or could Borca have struck a separate, very very secret deal with the now nautical Falkovnia, utilising/controlling the Hawk's primitive sensibilities (fight, feast, f- mentality; racism/slaves, etc) to further assure their safety (and help propel the plan of economic dominance)? Cutouts, pre-poisoned, waiting for activation for timely "tailoring" are of course the choice agents!
If the other treaty members somehow find out (Borcan agents botch the intercept) then it could be said that the plan was to divide Falkovnian forces, keep them busy offshore/away of the core (kill Markov and turn Markovia into HQ; it didn't dissolve because it traded dark lords; cue henchman), for the sake of all. The deal had to be secret, otherwise it wouldn't have been plausible. Damage done but containable. The hedged bet being that Falkovnia presents enough of a threat to the individual nations that the treaty is still of absolute importance to all...
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:10 am
by Baron Von Stanton
Rock of the Fraternity wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:08 pm
If you're talking East India Trading Co., then the Boitsi Trading Company (Borca; Ivana Boritsi's family) and Carlysle Trading Company (Zherisia; dread doppelgangers) seem like plausible stand-ins.
In order to wrench the monopoly of nutmeg from the indigenous Bandanese, the (Dutch) East India Trading Company sent troops to the Banda Islands in 1621, within what is now Indonesia, in order to exterminate those of the indigenous Bandanese who would not submit to Dutch rule, reducing the population from 15,000 to 1,000. Of those 1,000 survivors, they were then driven from the islands, either through exile, starving to death, or sold into slavery.
Later, the Company considered burning down all of their nutmeg plantations to keep their monopoly out of the hands of the British, but the Bandas were seized by the British Navy before plantation staff could act on this and drive nutmeg into extinction.
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:49 am
by Rock of the Fraternity
As a Dutchman, I am horrified by what my countrymen have done.
When I meant the Boritsi and Carlysle trading companies could be stand-ins for the East India TC, I meant in terms of organization, fleets and funding.
Re: We need to do something with these people
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:25 am
by Baron Von Stanton
Rock of the Fraternity wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:49 am
As a Dutchman, I am horrified by what my countrymen have done.
When I meant the Boritsi and Carlysle trading companies could be stand-ins for the East India TC, I meant in terms of organization, fleets and funding.
With this discussion of "the banality of evil" and then mention of the East India Company, I felt compelled to mention the bloodsoaked history of nutmeg as a macabre factoid.