Illithid in Ravenloft

[Gemathustra]

Of course, you do must realize, David, my dear, that human brains are much like gourmet cookies...
Eating only one may be immensely sinful, but one can not be irrevocably damned for eating just one...
Eating the entire tin, on the other hand, is irrevocably damning...

[alhoon]

A message to the oversized mellon that dellusionary believes it should rule all mind flayers and illithid-kin in Ravenloft:
Welcome back. A nice thread you have here!

Ideas:
1. Use the Expanded psionic handbook mind flayers. Then give them bonus power points equal to their HD.

2. Don't be shy about them. We had a disagreement in the past, but I still believe that such smart creatures like mind flayers are, should gain levels as psions, experts, psychic warriors etc. That doesn't mean that every mind flayer should be a 2nd level psion, but that mind flayers with NPC class levels and class levels shouldn't be unknown.
important: Mind flayer's stats are extremely high. The mind flayers I mentioned shouldn't have "elite array" abilities! A mind flayer with elite array for abilities and without class levels is far more powerful than a 1st level psion mind flayer with the normal abilities of mind flayers!

3. Don't make the Colony of Bluetspur vast, so you wouldn't have much problems with the mind flayer numbers. If Bluetspur has about 600 mind flayers, that should make trips to gather men (not that difficult with the planeshift) for ceremorphosis, you have an illithid threat, but not an extremely powerful race.
IMC Bluetspur has 2000 mind flayers, but the numbers are kept in check through the undead of Ravenloft, etc.

[The_God_Brain]

A message to the oversized mellon that dellusionary believes it should rule all mind flayers and illithid-kin in Ravenloft:
Welcome back. A nice thread you have here!

Not just Illithidkin. EVERYTHING.

Ideas:
1. Use the Expanded psionic handbook mind flayers. Then give them bonus power points equal to their HD.

2. Don't be shy about them. We had a disagreement in the past, but I still believe that such smart creatures like mind flayers are, should gain levels as psions, experts, psychic warriors etc. That doesn't mean that every mind flayer should be a 2nd level psion, but that mind flayers with NPC class levels and class levels shouldn't be unknown.

I don't recal ever dissagreeing with you about that.

important: Mind flayer's stats are extremely high. The mind flayers I mentioned shouldn't have "elite array" abilities! A mind flayer with elite array for abilities and without class levels is far more powerful than a 1st level psion mind flayer with the normal abilities of mind flayers!

3. Don't make the Colony of Bluetspur vast, so you wouldn't have much problems with the mind flayer numbers. If Bluetspur has about 600 mind flayers, that should make trips to gather men (not that difficult with the planeshift) for ceremorphosis, you have an illithid threat, but not an extremely powerful race.

Well, maybe it is vast, but even THAT doesn't allow them to dominate the world? Interesting thought, that....maybe it has something to do with their curse?

IMC Bluetspur has 2000 mind flayers, but the numbers are kept in check through the undead of Ravenloft, etc.

IMC, the Illithid are kept in check by a number of things, including a Thanni illithid slayer named Bowe Vizzuk. More on him later.

[The_God_Brain]

Here's a tasty thought to snack on:

Illithids are usually occupied with cosmic schemes - such as the conquest of the Cosmos or the destruction of the Sun. However, in Ravenloft, there is no real goal for the illithids.

hehehe...yeah, that is what we WANT you to think. Illithid are sneaky. Don't think for one minute they have abandoned goals of world (and cosmic) domination. its just harder, what with the contraints being placed on them by the Land of Mists, and by The God Brain's curse...that of course assumes you use the same curse for The God Brain as I do, and not the "God Brain wants to be a real boy" curse that appears to have been given to him. Still...even if you use the latter curse, it could be that The God Brain has abandoned all dreams of cosmic conquest, leaving It's illithid minions without the guiding hand...er, whatever...of their leader. So, any way you slice it, the Illithid are STILL in the game, its just hard for them...sort of like Vlad Drakov having a kick-ass army but not ever being able to WIN anything.

[Jester of the FoS]

So what are you planning on having its curse be anyway? Or is that a big surprise?

[The Nightmare Man]

What about the larval flayers? Are you including them in your work on Bluetspur, G-B?

For those that don't know, they were introduced in the Expanded Psionics Preview #4 of Dragon in April 2004.

According to the entry, larval flayers are the result of tadpoles that have grown too large for implantation. Most are usually destroyed, however, several of them sometimes escape the briny pool of their birth before destruction. They usually grow to about 2 feet long, where their psionic abilities begin to blossom. They have an inborn need to feed on something of a specific type. Larval flayers are apparently an earlier stage of neothelid development.

Larval flayers attack by using their inherent psionic dimension door power to drop down on an opponent from above, finding the vulnerable point of the opponent's neck and using it's 'attach' ability to create the psionic connection between larval flayer and opponent. Once attached, the flayer begins to eat away at the opponent's brain. If it manages to completely devour the brain without being cast off or destroyed, it will simply drop off the opponent and seek out a new creature to feed upon.

[The_God_Brain]

So what are you planning on having its curse be anyway? Or is that a big surprise?

Yes.

[The_God_Brain]

What about the larval flayers? Are you including them in your work on Bluetspur, G-B?

No, but I do think it was a neat idea. The way I see it, the entire illithid race sort of happened in a similar way to the go'uld on Stargate SG-1. Orginially an aquatic, parasitic race, somewhere along the line they evolved the ability to ceremorph and became the primitive illithid. From here, they developed an elder brain system from the remains of their oldist illithid that dramatically increased their cognitive and developemental abilities. There is a lot more to it than this, but thats the jist of it. Where the little things came from in the first place and how they figured out (or gained the ability to) ceremorph...be it the Far Realm, a mad scientist in a white coat with a lab full of beakers, or just another wonder of nature is lost to the ages (i.e. up to you). Under this scheme, it becomes clear that the evolutionary process inherent in the illithid's genes is to become neothalid, but they have headed that off at the pass, so to speak.

[Gemathustra]

What about the larval flayers?

I dunno, the larval flayers and especially the neothelids seem inappropriate for Ravenloft...
Especially the neothelids.
I mean, honestly, where's the Gothic, or even Lovecraftian sense of horror and outrage about a dragon-sized worm with a breath weapon that dissolves everything but brains and nerve-matter?

[The_God_Brain]

What about the larval flayers?

I dunno, the larval flayers and especially the neothelids seem inappropriate for Ravenloft...
Especially the neothelids.
I mean, honestly, where's the Gothic, or even Lovecraftian sense of horror and outrage about a dragon-sized worm with a breath weapon that dissolves everything but brains and nerve-matter?

I could see the larval mind flayers working. They appeal to the "eww...gross! What the hell is this thing on my neck?!?" sense of horror that Lovecraft used on occassion. As for neothelids...no, it is pretty tough to think of how that would come into play. The only thing I could think of right off hand is that it could fill the gap (pun intented) of a "creature in a pit" kind of thing, something the characters see from a distance and run the very real risk of encountering but can avoid with some quick thinking or skill. Also, it could pop up in someone's nightmares, or be the beast that someone intends to unleash unless his evil demands are met or something. But, in all the cases above, just about anything big and scary could fit the bill. I don't see how such a creature could find a place to live in Bluetspur, and its so powerful that it will pretty much take over everything in the area.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Indeed, neolithids are hunted by the mind flayers, who hate them above all other creatures - and since the God Brain is all knowing within his domain, a neolithid would have no place to hide.

Of course, a neolithid would have no where to spawn, either. As I recall, the only way to spawn one is for the larval illithids to be abandoned - which is very unlikely to occur while the illithids still rule.

[William Blackmoor]

That doesn't explain the frequent lightning storms described in "Thoughts of Darkness," so I think we can rule out Bluetspur being underground.

Besides, it was once part of the core, and its two mountains were part of the Balinoks. So the underground thing really makes no sense at all when you look at that.

The lightning could be eldritch energies or maybe even a "natural" phenomenon. Lightning on the moon would be similary unnatural. Maybe the lightning vanished like the other four moons of Nova Vaasa

Other domains were once part of the core as well. Markovia for example is now an island.

To me Bluetspur being now an underground domain makes all the sense in the world

[Gemathustra]

That doesn't explain the frequent lightning storms described in "Thoughts of Darkness," so I think we can rule out Bluetspur being underground.

Besides, it was once part of the core, and its two mountains were part of the Balinoks. So the underground thing really makes no sense at all when you look at that.

The lightning could be eldritch energies or maybe even a "natural" phenomenon. Lightning on the moon would be similary unnatural. Maybe the lightning vanished like the other four moons of Nova Vaasa

Other domains were once part of the core as well. Markovia for example is now an island.

To me Bluetspur being now an underground domain makes all the sense in the world

If Bluetspur was one giant cavern, then there would be no weather on Bluetspur's "surface," at all, and the Mindflayers would colonize the "surface," to boot. But there are no mindflayers on the surface.
If there was magma lighting the horizon, then there would be pools of magma from where it dripped down from the ceiling, but, there have been no pools of magma ever reported in Bluetspur, neither at its edges, nor its interior.

[William Blackmoor]

Hm... then let's asume the lighnings are some sort of wild arcane energy (maybe the result of a war with the El Koth or the Thaani ancestors?).
The glow on the horizon is no magma but radiation, which could also be some manifestation of the mist, trapping pure mindflayers (keeping them from wandering of into other realms, eating tons of brains there and destroying the gothic touch ).

The illithids would be kept from settling the great "surface"cave by the arcane storms and since that ill-fated experiment, by the vampiric illithids (who are invisible to illithids because of their undead nature). So the illithids still have a very good reason for staying within the smaller caves.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Sorry, Will, your version of Bluetspur seems a little too over-the-top for Ravenloft, and it requires far too much explanation to work with the existing references to the domain to be viable for most people. Especially since there's no support for that theory in any of the existing canon.

If that's how you run Bluetspur in your own campaign, more power to you. Everyone should be able to run whatever kind of D&D campaign that they wish to, but that doesn't mean every change you make will fit the established setting(s). An underground Bluetspur, while intriguing, contradicts established details of the domain, and attempts to reconcile it with canon references (such as the lightning storms) take it too far from "alien and creepy," and dangerously close to "just plain silly."