Barovia without Strahd?

[Darkknight]

That also is my most hated point with this DL. Four hundred years, and the only time he gets excited is during the next incarnation. Yes his iron fist keeps the boyers in check, he protects his people from the outside, but that is also the weakness of his land.

So much is left to discuss if Strahd were to die. I think it would fall to Lyssa, but it could be several others. I wonder as well if there would be a core wide issue.

If I was running, I hold Strahd as the lynchpin, the core would break apart... More clusters, more islands...

As for the DPs, I can see them escaping at his death, they would have set that in motion long ago.

[Le Noir Faineant]

So, what exactly would that time of Unparalleled Darkness mean?

TBH, never heard of it before...

[ScS of the Fraternity]

The Time of Unparralleled Darkness was mentioned at the end of Bleak House, as the time of... well.. unparralleled darkness for which the child Van Richten would be training.
There were no set details for this crisis - not was it made clear what Van Richten could possibly do to help.

It may be a safe bet that the T.U.P. would involve the Gentleman Caller, the Dukkar, or perhaps the Dead of Darkon reclaiming the world.

[Igor the Henchman]

In the preface of the Domains of Dread setting book published in 1997, Bill Connors and Steve Miller (mostly Bill, I think) hinted that the Time of Unparalleled Darkness would be something to "make the people of Ravenloft look back to the Grand Conjunction and the Grim Harvest as the 'good old days'"... Of course, since the line has long been handed to new management, the original plans the writers had for it will likely never see fruition, but its enough to give you some ideas as to the proportions of the event.

I don't remember where this was written, but I'm pretty sure the ToUD is expected to come in the year 775 BC.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Thank you!

So another cataclysmic event standing at the Gates of Barovia...

Honestly, I don't know if I pity that TSR never came to make it real or not...

IMO, RL is just not the place for *world shaking metacampaigns*...

However, maybe that's the next thing we see when the Dark Duo ever decides to push the line a bit more forward... After all, it's about 4 years at least that RL is under d20 and until now, they never tried to alter the status quo...

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I think the TOUD works best right now, as a vaguely defined terrible thing in the future, to be feared and dreaded. Once it happens and the mystery is gone, it won't be so interesting. It's something for the Ezran priests to preach about, "The end of the world is coming!" It's something for the Gentleman Caller to plan for. It's something to be found in ancient scrolls and books. It's something to be whispered about by vistani fortune-tellers. It's something for Van Richten to train for. It's something for holy artifacts to be crafted for. It's something that juuuust might be averted by clever and lucky heroes. If it becomes just another excuse to scramble the maps and kill off some NPCs, I'm not interested.

Along the same lines, I see a lot of this sentiment going around:

However, maybe that's the next thing we see when the Dark Duo ever decides to push the line a bit more forward... After all, it's about 4 years at least that RL is under d20 and until now, they never tried to alter the status quo...

and I just don't understand it.

Azalin came back, and is clearly plotting something, requiring extensive knowledge of all the domains, probably involving Malocchio.
We recently learned Mallocchio is one of at least five children of the GC.
Jacquie Renier is planning a plague to transform everyone into rats.
Jacquie Montarri has founded the Red Vardo Traders.
Hazlik is planning to annihilate all the Mulan.
Godefroy is taking an active role in Mordentish politics by extorting Jules Weathermay with threats to his wife's ghost.
Tensions between the Falkovnians and the Four Tower nations are at a boiling point.
There ... is... another... Aderre.
The new darklord of Sithicus has been revealed.
The Ba'al Verzi have been commandeered by a Nosferatu.
The Weathermay Twins have gone from passive editors to active monster hunters.
There are innumerable new threats out there: Toben, The Jongleur, The Clockmaker, Vigo Drakov, Les Ordures, the new wererat strains, Ebb's mate (and possbily spawn), The Lizard, S herself...

How is that not moving the setting forward?

And remember, the one time they made a huge and sweeping change to the established setting, it was reviled: The Sherrif and the Ebon Gargoyles.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Of course, all those plots promise a lot of adventuring, but I think nothing alike the GC or the Requiem...

Would just have been fun to know...

[Malus Black]

Godefroy is taking an active role in Mordentish politics by extorting Jules Weathermay with threats to his wife's ghost.

Daniel Foxgrove, actually. And I agree that the Time of Unparalleled Darkness works best as a vague threat of worse things to come. Sort of a lite-version of the End Times in Call of Cthulhu - it's coming, and it's going to be bad, so you've got to try your best until then and bring a little light into this damned darkness. If you're lucky you might even delay it a bit and get one more day of blessed sunlight.

[Igor the Henchman]

Having read the new data regarding the ToUD, I can tell I have some personal problems with it. While I understand how a dark, unavoidable world-destruction event can be a very creepy thing... But isn't 15 years a really *tiny* delay? Consider this: most surviving PCs and established NPCs will actually *live* to see the event happening.

Seriously, knowing its that bad and that its coming so fast is enough for me to want to submit myself to Theodorus Raines this instant.

After all, it means that in a bare 15 years of game time, we'll see everyone in the setting either die or see his dreams shattered forever. This includes the Weathermays, Alanik Ray, Maeve, Jander Sunstar, Gondegal, plus all Darklords, PCs and innocent villagers.

Yes, I know that Ravenloft is not about pretty and sound futures or convenient happy endings. What I have gripes with is that the ToUD takes away the tiny hope of a happy future that drives Ravenloft adventures and campaigns. If the end is to come, and it is nigh unavoidable (because, lets face it, if it were easily avoidable, it would lose its flair and become just one more plot device among so much others), Ravenloft has simply been remade into a poor imitation of Call of Cthulhu - a desperate and doomed land, where your best chance is to prepare for the worst in wait of the Fated Hour.

[Jester of the FoS]

Okay, small problem with most of the darklord replacements. None of them have a domain of their own yet. And some have been in the game for years.
I'd rather see the land go to someone new.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

So invent someone new, or use one of the more recent characters. For example, if you beefed up her nasty side, I could picture that Rashemani wizard Hazlik's been grooming as a "replacement" (ostensibly his heir, actually a body for himself) rushing to Barovia to loot Strahd's infamous stockpile of spellbooks, only to wind up a domain lord in her own right. Between her highly foreign ways and her desire to make Barovia seem less alien to herself, the Barovians -- who can't even get along with the near-indistinguishable Gundarakites, for cryin' out loud! -- would be faced with a level of culture shock that would blindside them completely. Not to mention how cheesed-off Hazlik'd be, to realize his star apprentice (and future Magic Jar host) has done a runner, snatched herself a throne, AND scooped up a treasure-trove of Strahd's necromantic secrets (the branch of magic which Hazzie hates the most) in the bargain!

[Le Noir Faineant]

Ravenloft has simply been remade into a poor imitation of Call of Cthulhu - a desperate and doomed land, where your best chance is to prepare for the worst in wait of the Fated Hour.

Sounds like the topic for one of the best QtR issues ever!

Confratres, what do you say aabout detailing the beginning of the setting's end?

Shortspot: *Alliance of Darklords*

[Ivana_Boritsi]

If the end is to come, and it is nigh unavoidable (because, lets face it, if it were easily avoidable, it would lose its flair and become just one more plot device among so much others), Ravenloft has simply been remade into a poor imitation of Call of Cthulhu - a desperate and doomed land, where your best chance is to prepare for the worst in wait of the Fated Hour.

If you read the thread with Steve Miller's comments, you can see that it's just another plot device. Stever Miller never intended to address the ToUD in print. But....

Let's say that the game year does roll around to the Time of Ultimate Darkness, and that Ravenloft is still being published. Are people going to quit making books? Nope. As long as people are willing to buy books, I would imagine that there will be someone wanting to continue publishing them. So, the Time of Ultimate Darkness could be alot of things. Back in 2nd ed. I was aghast when they killed of Van Richten, Azalin, and made Il-Aluk into the Necropolis. I thought that it spelled the end of the campaign setting. But obviously, that was not the case....

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Godefroy is taking an active role in Mordentish politics by extorting Jules Weathermay with threats to his wife's ghost.

Daniel Foxgrove, actually. .

Correction noted. (I hesitated for a moment when typing Jules because I wasn't sure, but then went with it...)

[Mortepierre]

<casts animate dead on the thread>

You know, it just occured to me that the ToUD might just be the day Gwydion finally escapes the Obsidian Gate. After all, Gaz V states:

..should he ever be freed, it will be a dark day for all of Ravenloft..

and, if I am not mistaken, the author himself pointed out that G. was so powerful that IF he did escape, not even the DP would be mighty enough to keep him confined to RL.

Given the Obsidian Gate is deep within the Shadow Rift and that, normally, you can't enter that domain via conventional means, a half-fiend like Malocchio (endowed with innate transportation abilities) could make all the difference...