Café de Nuit

Tadelin wrote:Since this is LARP-specific,...

Is it, though? Lemme quote that one part again, with some emphases:

Q. Which games fall under this license?
A. All White Wolf roleplaying games (traditional tabletop or live-action) regardless of setting. This includes all World of Darkness games, Exalted, Trinity, Scarred Lands and most anything else published by White Wolf, Arthaus Publishing or Sword & Sorcery Studios.

Maybe in practice they're only targeting World of Darkness LARPS, but then why are those clauses there?

Protect themselves now so they can do something when someone abuses the system rather than have to come up with a whole new set of rules at the spur of the moment.
It gives them a legal stance where they can say that anyone negatively affecting other players was breaking the rules thus indemnifying them from possible litigation. In this lawsuit-happy litigious world companies really do have to protect their ass-ets with clauses and rules like this. Sad but true. It’ll hurt fans somewhere down the line but not nearly as much as having someone sue the company for emotional damages and distress bankrupting them.

No, I think it s***s as a general policy.
When we host a tournament of Ravenloft or Vampire here at Games' fair, there's a riciculous fee (about 5 euros) and some prizes-usually with a value more than the sum of the amount all players paid (their cost is something harder to complicate, but it involves paying the hotel etc, so I don't think there was ever a chance local game shops gained more than 10 euros from this - DMs gain products of value of 20 euros each, the first player 30, the best team 15 each etc.).

This policy means that these Vampire tournaments (but probably not the Ravenloft ones, due to the licence), should be avoided (unless you want to mess with a hell of written licensing and pay an important amount of money to White Wolf).
The fact is that these tournaments were half the game's promotion in my country. Stopping them would ruin White Wolf even more.

Aaaah... someone has to shoot their managers...

Brandi wrote:Is it, though? Lemme quote that one part again...

Maybe in practice they're only targeting World of Darkness LARPS, but then why are those clauses there?

My misread then. Either way, since V:tM is their big seller, and it's something that they're going to focus a lot more on, it would make sense that they're going more for the LARP's. To go after tabletop games would be, well, corporate suicide. The logistics of what the license implies would make it far too difficult to properly enforce.

tec-goblin wrote:No, I think it s***s as a general policy.
When we host a tournament of Ravenloft or Vampire here at Games' fair, there's a riciculous fee (about 5 euros) and some prizes-usually with a value more than the sum of the amount all players paid (their cost is something harder to complicate, but it involves paying the hotel etc, so I don't think there was ever a chance local game shops gained more than 10 euros from this - DMs gain products of value of 20 euros each, the first player 30, the best team 15 each etc.).

This policy means that these Vampire tournaments (but probably not the Ravenloft ones, due to the licence), should be avoided (unless you want to mess with a hell of written licensing and pay an important amount of money to White Wolf).
The fact is that these tournaments were half the game's promotion in my country. Stopping them would ruin White Wolf even more.

Aaaah... someone has to shoot their managers...

And if they were licenced and charging something like, say, 30 Euros and making a killing profit-wise what would stop someone from taking their beef to the big company?
You do not judge a new policy based on how it affects the average person but on the extraordinary person who is going to make trouble because it is people like that who spoil the fun for everyone else. WW wouldn't have done this and risked alienating so many fans and caused such a fuss if they didn't think it was or would be an issue.

Now, in the case you presented the tourny is a rare event, the organizers pay a $20 fee for Camarilla membership (about 10 euros) and do the paperwork, everyone else, since it is a one-time thing and not a weekly/daily event do not have to pay.
Ooooor they *tweak* how it works, playing is free but entering the draw costs a couple bucks or they serve really expensive sodas and snacks.

tec-goblin: Please try to refrain from using masked profanity, thanks

Wiccy of the Fraternity wrote:tec-goblin: Please try to refrain from using masked profanity, thanks

I was trying to figure out what he was masking, it was either ****, ****, **** or ****. But I'm also thinking he meant sucks.

Yeah, I assumed sucks as well, which is something I would say in front of my grandmother so censoring it seemed odd...

Actually, it looks like White Wolf's pulling the policy after the large quantities of negative feedback:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wh ... 11129.html

Mind you, this doesn't mean they might not try to come up with a licensing system but I think it was made pretty obvious that they'll have to be a lot more focused if it's really meant to be something like dealing with for-profit/at-convention LARPing.

Name one other company that would have pulled such a widespread and important policy just on some negative reactions? I give White Wolf serious credit and applause for that. I am impressed.

David of the Frat wrote: And if they were licenced and charging something like, say, 30 Euros and making a killing profit-wise what would stop someone from taking their beef to the big company?
You do not judge a new policy based on how it affects the average person but on the extraordinary person who is going to make trouble because it is people like that who spoil the fun for everyone else. WW wouldn't have done this and risked alienating so many fans and caused such a fuss if they didn't think it was or would be an issue.

I disagree. You cannot screw the average person just in case one person in a hundred tries to make money from this kind of tournaments. Too much security is bad security as we are taught in university...
Or : "security should pay, not cost"

Now, in the case you presented the tourny is a rare event, the organizers pay a $20 fee for Camarilla membership (about 10 euros) and do the paperwork, everyone else, since it is a one-time thing and not a weekly/daily event do not have to pay.

You haven't tried to contact White Wolf from abroad. I mean, just this paperwork can take some months to be completed and cost to the organizers an immense amount of time. Believe me. I have worked from the insides - sometimes White Wolf is as slow in its reaction as it can get. Particularly when hundreds of game organizers in the world will try to do the same thing the same week...

Ooooor they *tweak* how it works, playing is free but entering the draw costs a couple bucks or they serve really expensive sodas and snacks.

That wouldn't work - sometimes whole families enter to show their kids things etc.

Brandi wrote:Actually, it looks like White Wolf's pulling the policy after the large quantities of negative feedback:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wh ... 11129.html

Mind you, this doesn't mean they might not try to come up with a licensing system but I think it was made pretty obvious that they'll have to be a lot more focused if it's really meant to be something like dealing with for-profit/at-convention LARPing.

Thank Strahd!

Wiccy of the Fraternity wrote:tec-goblin: Please try to refrain from using masked profanity, thanks

Sorry, ok, I won't do it again...

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote: I was trying to figure out what he was masking, it was either ****, ****, **** or ****. But I'm also thinking he meant sucks.

I also said something about shooting the managers, so I think that was more serious than the word "sucks"