Café de Nuit

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:My theory is that S is also a clone, but ...

Joël

I'll agree Joel, it does seem to fit.

If I ever do anything with S, then I'm going to be doing it that way. Sure, it might not be exactly what was intended, but it works. I've always wondered whether it would be S's maternal side that finally causes her to betray Azalin. Throughout the Gazetteers there are elements of her maternal/feminine instincts playing out, showing contrast between her and Azalin. Of course, that's just me. The intended canon material is probably completely different.

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:I think he [Ryan Naylor] hinted it in "She is the illegitimate daughter of a Darkonese nobleman (erm, that is, the people who raised her are Darkonese nobles--so who is her real father? Go on, it's not that hard)."

I agree, that's as much as I've heard, from back in the Gazetteer Metaplot thread. However, I'm not certain that I even understand what he was saying there. I figure it's either:

1) Lord and Lady A raised S, but S is actually the result of an affair between Lady A and an unnamed Lord B.

2) Lord and Lady A raised S, but S is actually the result of an affair between Lady A and some random dude C (not a Lord).

3) Lord and Lady A raised S, but S's parentage is unknown, she's merely an adopted unfortunate.

There's nothing to suggest that "Lord B" is Azalin. "Lord B" could be the insane baron from Karg who ate his wife. Or it could be some random C and she could be the daughter of Salizzar.

Even just getting clarification on the above three options would help quite a bit.

Or S could be anyone's kid who was raised by the nobles as an illegitimate child (my personal theory is well known so I won't repeat it here).

An Azalin bloodline for LotB II, now that's a very cool idea. I'll add that to the list (along with Timothy, VanRichten, Misroi, etc).

David of the FoS wrote:Or S could be anyone's kid who was raised by the nobles as an illegitimate child (my personal theory is well known so I won't repeat it here).

Which was my #3 above. But as I'm unfamiliar with your theory on it (and since you've got 1,500 posts, I'm not sure I'm up to following back through all of them to find the reference), could you give a quick summary and/or link to a previous thread?

David of the FoS wrote:An Azalin bloodline for LotB II, now that's a very cool idea. I'll add that to the list (along with Timothy, VanRichten, Misroi, etc).

That would be cool, though I'm uncertain what you'll base it on. Azalin, even in the False History, is listed as coming in from outside the land to defeat Darcalus. So it'd seem like a weird bloodline as Azalin is the highest point and all there is are clones below him (or you could include Irik, even though he was dead before the land appeared).

Nobody ever said it has to be a long bloodline, to qualify for LotB coverage; if Azalin created enough surviving clones, they might actually outnumber some of the less-fecund clans from Legacies I.

Plus, S needn't be his only clone to have had kids by now. No date is given to when he started his cloning experiment, IIRC, so some might even have gotten into a third or later generation by this point.

Possibly, but what if Azalin passed along a curse that one's offspring die by the hand of their parent?

ScS of the Fraternity wrote:Possibly, but what if Azalin passed along a curse that one's offspring die by the hand of their parent?

It's morbid enough, but it's awfully restrictive for both DMs and potential Zal'honan PCs. Von Zarovich siblings aren't cursed to murder each other, in Legacies I, so why should the lich's cloned descendents merely reenact their progenitor's crime? A curse that manipulates their memories as to their own past and/or identity -- which, debatably, might actually be born out in Dachine's delusions of grandeur -- would be more befitting, and a heck of a lot more role-playable, IMO.

That's what I'd really like to see, is a Zal'Honan family line of a fashion like in Legacy of the Blood, where you could potentially play a Zal'Honan. That would absolutely rock.

And I apologize for above, I didn't necessarily mean to indicate that the bloodline need be long. Nor did I mean, when I said that the bloodline would be weird, that that would be bad. It'd be kinda cool, really. And that's a good point that how long Azalin has been doing the cloning idea, as it may have been going on for <i>centuries</i> but with fewer biologically-viable successes than in recent years.

And as for <i>my</i> theory on S, I believe that she is not a clone of <i>Azalin</i>, but rather a clone of <i>Irik</i>. This sits better with me, overall. In the Gazetteers I got the feeling that Azalin was trying to mold S as an heir, for in the RPHB he refers to how terrible he felt upon coming back and seeing Darkon fall apart in his absence, that he wants an heir to rule Darkon in his place, for part of his pride is in the idea of being a strong ruler (hence why he killed Irik in the first place, because he was afraid for his country). Also, the comments from him sound, to me anyway, like he's talking to a child of his ("my little scholar") and similarly, some of his reproving comments sound like a father trying to mold a child. So the idea of S being a clone of Azalin somewhat stuck to me, but Azalin's desire to truly get Irik back, to have a ruler of his own bloodline to hand power down to (rather than just a copy of himself)... It just makes sense to me that S is a clone of Irik.

David of the FoS wrote:An Azalin bloodline for LotB II, now that's a very cool idea. I'll add that to the list (along with Timothy, VanRichten, Misroi, etc).

Anton had kids?!

He could easily have had children. He was amrried, and nothing in his origin said he didn't. As well, he could have had any number of bastards.
As wel,, he was part of a wealthy family - which means he could have a whole clan of relations.
I wrote the LoB entry for Misroi in the Souragne Gazeteer. My theory was that the taint of evil and death is an inherant trait in the Misroi line.

As for Van Richten, its not impossible for other relations to exist. In fact, one might have considered the Twins to be relatives, considering his connection to them. They've certainly inherited more than a few of his traits, as well as some of his curse - what with their loved ones being threatened by monsters (albiet not necesssarily dying at the hands of monsters).

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:

alhoon wrote: I think Ryan told that too. So it is not a theory...

I've revised the notes I have on S and didn't see this? Can you point the source?

I think he hinted it in "She is the illegitimate daughter of a Darkonese nobleman (erm, that is, the people who raised her are Darkonese nobles--so who is her real father? Go on, it's not that hard)."

Joël

Joël of the Fraternity wrote: "She is the illegitimate daughter of a Darkonese nobleman (erm, that is, the people who raised her are Darkonese nobles--so who is her real father? Go on, it's not that hard).

This one along the fact that she is good with magic, intelligent and amoral. She loved her daughter but she put her in harms way...

She feels like a breathing Azalin with a waking concience (Something that Azalin has not).

That Scion of Death feat would probably go real well with the Zal'honan "family" as well.

Hey... think any of Azalin's relatives back on Oerth might be affected as well?

Probably not - the laws of metaphysics that connect the evil of one person to the whole family probably are limited to Ravenloft.
Kind of like curses - they only work because of Ravenloft's unique laws of magic and morality.

Haven't some characters been cursed since before coming to Ravenloft? Tristen's dad was cursed while they were still in Faerun.

Rules for evil beings laying dying curses can be found in the Book of Vile Darkness. If we assume that Romir's wife was evil--not an unreasonable assumption, as we know so little about her that there is nothing to contraindicate this--then there's no problem with her cursing Romir outside of Ravenloft.