Café de Nuit

Ah, thanks for that. I haven't read Gaz IV yet.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:As for why she hasn't lost darklordship to Malocchio, or someone else, who says the Dark Powers aren't planning to arrange such a shift in the future? There's no rule that says they have to oust a darklord instantly if he or she starts to slack off -- they certainly gave Soth a reprieve from being demoted, the first time he lost interest in his domain, in When Black Roses Bloom -- and it'd be consistent with other darklordly downfalls if they were to wait until some appropriately-cataclysmic event to boot her out and/or kill her off. Until that time, they'll keep mucking with her hopes and fears, and see which way she jumps (i.e. towards or away from greater evil).

Mallochio has certainly earned the title and would make for a warlike DL as hinted at in Gaz I, regarding the "Invidians" that invaded Kartakass. I wonder if the hinted-at war between him and his neighbors (Barovia and Borca, for his intrusions while chasing Vistani) could be the event that makes him DL?

Heh heh. Before Malocchio gets promoted to darklord, I'd like to see the guy become a wee bit more mature. He's essentially a spoiled brat at heart -- spoiled, and nothing more -- which strikes me as rather trite and petty for a darklord, no matter how homicidal his temper tantrums might become. He just doesn't have the depth for it, IMO, at least as he currently stands.

You're right. "Spoiled brat" does sum up Mallochio.

Him, and Prince Othmar as well, for that matter. Neither one of them has the depth to make an effective darklord, if you ask me ... which, in a way, makes it an insult that the Dark Powers haven't deigned to promote either one! Which, amusingly, proves the DPs don't always have to make bad guys into darklords in order to dis them.

Creepy Old Woman wrote: As far as I know, she inherited the mantleship of darklord from Bakholis in what was essentially an act of self-defence.

Ah, but note the pattern involved in new darklords inheriting domains upon the deaths of old darklords:

Claude Renier was murdered by Jackie R.
Duke Gundar was betrayed by Daclaud Heinfroth.
Camille Dilisnya's assassination was masterminded by Ivana Boritsi.
Bakholis was killed by Gabrielle Aderre.
Radaga was slain in a convoluted battle involving the Crown of Souls, and upon her death Daegon's soul was released from the crown and took the darklordship of Daglan.

In short, in the event of a darklord's death, one inherits a darklord's domain by (a) qualifying for the position and (b) being involved in the previous darklord's death. Admittedly, Heinfroth and Ivana did not personally strike the killing blows, but in both cases they were actively involved and present; they watched their predecessors die. Gabby doesn't even necessarily have to have failed a powers check when she killed Bakholis; as long as she was already "qualified" for the position, all she had to do was be involved in his death.

The Evil Eye further supports this - it gives the option of Malocchio becoming the new darklord of Invidia. The condition? Gabby has to die during the climactic battle due to his machinations. As long as she lives, he cannot inherit Invidia.

In theory, the DP's could pick Malocchio up and grant him his own domain, but that happens very rarely for individuals already in Ravenloft. Most of the time, they enter the Mists of their own accord before being granted a domain (off the top of my head, Dominic d'Honaire, Camille Dilisnya, Harkon Lukas, and Azalin all headed into a misty border before their domains appeared before them.)

Creepy Old Woman wrote: The DPs had stripped the likes of Nathan Timothy and arguably Lord Soth from their darklord mantle, so why didn't they do the same with Gabrielle whose sins were actually one of the most inconsequential for a darklord?

In the case of Nathan Timothy, I have always interpreted his loss of darklordship was a side effect of the Grand Conjunction rather than an intentional action on the part of the DP's.

Lord Soth's situation is... messy. No comment.

Garudos Celestar wrote:Gabby doesn't even necessarily have to have failed a powers check when she killed Bakholis; as long as she was already "qualified" for the position, all she had to do was be involved in his death.

True ... but then again, sometimes it seems like it's more a question of quality than quantity of evil, that determines who gets "promoted" to darklord. Case in point: Lord Godefroy inherited darklordship of Mordent when Strahd and Azalin returned to Barovia, without having played any significant role in their removal. In fact, there were lots of other monsters on the loose in the I10 scenario -- some of them more evil in nature than Godefroy -- and he didn't do anything in particular to stand out from the crowd, during that adventure. Yet they were all passed over in the ghost's favor, because he was the most dramatic villain left in the domain.

Yet they were all passed over in the ghost's favor, because he was the most dramatic villain left in the domain.

I can imagine the DPs munching on popcorns and watching from the... er, heavens or something... at all that drama unfolding in RL.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote: Case in point: Lord Godefroy inherited darklordship of Mordent when Strahd and Azalin returned to Barovia, without having played any significant role in their removal.

Ah, but neither Strahd or Azalin were the darklords of Mordent. Azalin wouldn't become a darklord until after the events of I10 (and he received his own personal domain rather than inheriting one), and Strahd was darklord of a different domain altogether. Bottom line: Godefroy didn't inherit darklordship from anybody; he was the first lord of Mordent, period.

Also, neither of them died (or, since we're dealing with undead, neither of them was destroyed), which was my main point with Gabby - when the darklord dies, someone who helped destroy him or her is the inheritor of the domain in every canon case.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Heh heh. Before Malocchio gets promoted to darklord, I'd like to see the guy become a wee bit more mature. He's essentially a spoiled brat at heart -- spoiled, and nothing more -- which strikes me as rather trite and petty for a darklord, no matter how homicidal his temper tantrums might become. He just doesn't have the depth for it, IMO, at least as he currently stands.

Completely agreed. Indeed, I have always wanted to retcon Malocchio into being a tragic being. Someone who is destined to become someone of great evil, but who grows up completely oblivious of that.

As I see this, Malocchio would have been kidnapped from early childhood, to Gabrielle's despair as she seems the only one who knows his dark future, and who goes to great lengths to find him and kill him before he becomes the monster she know he will (Thus commiting the henious acts that would keep her firmly in her darklord seat).

In the meantime, he would grow up as a normal child (i.e. At a normal rate), with nothing unusual about him, except for the strange accidents that start to happen around him, when he feels threatened or is angry for some reason.

From then on, his story could develop a lot, don't you think?

A lot of good ideas in this thread. Gabrielle Aderre has always been one of my favorite darklords.

To get more of an idea of the depth of her evil, you really need to look at some of the older 2E works. The Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium II introduced the Midnight Slasher, a serial killer who was unthinkingly created by Gabrielle. When the Slasher was a young girl, Gabrielle seduced and provoked her parents into killing each other in a crime of passion, simply out of spite because of how loving the couple were to one another. The child witnessed this, her mind snapped, and she eventually grew up to prey on Karina's prostitutes, who in her mind stood for the seductress who destroyed her family.

As far as Malocchio inheriting the mantle of darklord from her, according to the Invidia Gazetteer, he is fully aware and fearful of the possibility. Right now, the only thing binding him to Invidia is Madame Eva's spell, which can still possibly be thwarted. If he becomes a darklord, he will be trapped forever, so he is currently allowing Gabrielle to live.

I could be wrong, but I've never heard of the mantle of darklord passing to another without the death of the prior lord. The closest I've seen is Nathan Timothy, but A) he didn't so much pass on the mantle as his domain ceased to exist/became part of Verbrek, B) it was the result of the Grand Conjunction, and C) his curse continues to function; he is no longer confined by the borders of a domain, but is still tied to the water.

I do agree that Malocchio is more evil than Gabrielle, but is lacking the tragic depths that she has. Malocchio is more "BWAHAHAHA TWIRL MY MUSTACHE AT YOU" evil, while Gabrielle's longing for acceptance brings her closer to the Gothic ideal. I mean, if evil acts alone were enough to determine the darklord of a domain, Mordenheim would be Lamordia's lord instead of Adam. Adam may have plenty of dark deeds to his name, but all of his crimes can arguably be laid at the feet of Mordenheim for his hubris and insanity.

I love this site.

Wolfkook, your idea of a tragic Molocchio intrigues me. It would add more depth to him in my opinion. He always seemed so shallow to me as currently written.

That brings up an interesting question: how could we make Malocchio feel more tragic, without retconning his background and trashing The Evil Eye? Can we come up with some personal experience -- being ousted from power, getting chewed out as a failure by the GC, falling in love as a true fiend never could, etc -- that could bring his human side to the fore, and so make him three-dimensional/Gothic enough to cut it as a darklord?

What about meeting a cambion or tiefling that isn't evil, forcing him to confront the fact that he did have a choice, and wasn't destined to be evil. (maybe a meetup with his half-sister, the Beast of the Hills?)

I'm not sure that would work, given that Malocchio's evil is as much a result of his being a dukkar as being a half-fiend. Certainly, the fact that the Vistani call him a dukkar, and his late grandmother's warnings to his mother, both suggest that Gabrielle's son really was fated to be evil at heart ... even if his sire had been human.

That being said, there's no reason we couldn't give the overgrown brat a reason, now that it's too late to make amends, to belatedly rail against that fate.