New Ravenloft DM -- Help (3.5)

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Bluetspur was originally described as simply another domain, which was home to illithids. It was further described in the module "Thoughts of Darkness". A fan's netzine article introduced the idea that the illithids' God-Brain (like an Elder Brain, but elevated to darklord status) could infiltrate the dreams of psionics-users ... and not just in Bluetspur, but anywhere in the entire setting.

The FoG module pretty much had to say that the Kartakans spoke Common, because nobody had yet written anything about Ravenloft's languages yet. In the 3E products, Kartakans speak Vaasi, a language from the Forgotten Realms. If you think you'd like to use the more recent Ravenloft products as source material, you should probably say that the PCs' language sounds like Darkonese, the language of Darkon. The PCs wouldn't have too much trouble finding someone who can understand them, what with all the bards in Kartakass.

[alhoon]

I don't scare my PCs and I DM Ravenloft for about a decade.
Since my Players and I enjoy the atmosphere of the game etc, I don't mind that nobody is scared.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

A fan's netzine article introduced the idea that the illithids' God-Brain (like an Elder Brain, but elevated to darklord status) could infiltrate the dreams of psionics-users ... and not just in Bluetspur, but anywhere in the entire setting.

Not just any fan, though. It was one of the fans that would go on to write a good deal of the 3e Ravenloft books. If the 3e line ever got around to Bluetspur, I'm sure Mangrum's additions would have become canon...

I love Feast of Goblyns, but it does have it's issues to be aware of, some of which I wrote about in my review here.

[Thelas]

Question time...

How much do you guys typically let your players know? Not IC, but OOC, stuff like "you'll need at least one LG character to do something later" or similar.

The review says

a note from Dominiani to Akriel implies that their true plan is to turn his inmates into a goblyn army, and use the crown to open the border to invade Kartakass. But the list of the crown's powers seems to omit this one.

What do you mean by "this one"?
I definitely see something about turning men into goblyns. Or do you mean opening the borders? In that case, how would you suggest fixing it? Can it open any borders (powerful...) or just open Kartakass?

If the player characters attend this bar, a wolfwere will attempt to spirit one of them off and hunt him as described above.

If the wolfwere succeds (for some reason, typing wolfwere instead of werewolf feels very weird), how would you recommend running that? Take the affected PC to a separate room (with the module, because I don't trust my players further than I can throw a DM screen, and I'm very physically inept) and try to liberally season with horror (and probably fail)?

You mentioned in the review that the lies of the NPCs aren't very believable. Though I think my players will be more trickable than most, due to their tendency not to think until their HP is <= -1, I'd still like to know if anyone has fixed that online.

Thanks for your help!

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

How much do you guys typically let your players know? Not IC, but OOC, stuff like "you'll need at least one LG character to do something later" or similar.

I don't like to force anyone to play something they don't want to. When I ran FoG most recently and didn't have an LG character, I let them use the ranger's Wolf companion instead, letting True Neutral stand in for "pure of heart".

I'd rather change the story to fit the characters than force the characters to fit the story, but that's just me.

I tell them that certain character types "have a hard time" in Ravenloft (evil characters, necromancers, paladins, and to a lesser extent demihumans) but if someone wanted to play one, I'd let them and deal with it.

If you're interested in what else I did to the module, and have some time on your hands, you can read my campaign journal. Session 7 is where FoG really starts. (A tiny intro was in Session 6). Note that when I ran it, it was actually an illusiory "play" in the theater of a darklord named Juste, since the events of the module were in the "past" of my campaign.

What do you mean by "this one"?
I definitely see something about turning men into goblyns. Or do you mean opening the borders? In that case, how would you suggest fixing it? Can it open any borders (powerful...) or just open Kartakass?

Yes, that's what I meant. I just gave it that power. Powerful, yes, but since the end of the adventure destroys the crown, not a big deal.

Take the affected PC to a separate room (with the module, because I don't trust my players further than I can throw a DM screen, and I'm very physically inept) and try to liberally season with horror (and probably fail)?

That's probably how I would do it, but if your other players can play their characters as though they don't know what's going on, you can just do it in front of them.

If you doubt your ability to convey the horror of the situation, or your player's ability to be horrified, don't sweat it too much. Like alhoon said, you don't have to leave your players with nightmares to play Ravenloft. Much as some of us like to emphasize the horror, that does require players that are willing. There's nothing wrong with just playing Ravenloft as "D&D meets Frankenstein, Dracula, and the Wolfman" and just using the trappings of horror to flavor the story.

Go with the flow, let your player's reactions guide you. If they want it to be "Van Helsing" and not "The Others," forcing horror on them will only turn it into "Darcula: Dead and Loving It."

You mentioned in the review that the lies of the NPCs aren't very believable. Though I think my players will be more trickable than most, due to their tendency not to think until their HP is <= -1, I'd still like to know if anyone has fixed that online.

Well, my fix to Akriel's story is in the review, and it worked OK.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

How much do you guys typically let your players know? Not IC, but OOC, stuff like "you'll need at least one LG character to do something later" or similar.

Giving suggestions about what classes or races might be useful is okay, IMO, as is telling them what alignments are preferred or prohibited. If nobody wants to play a particular alignment, class, or race, I personally prefer to work around the need, or attach an NPC to the group who isn't otherwise very useful, but can do what's necessary when the time comes.

What do you mean by "this one"?
I definitely see something about turning men into goblyns. Or do you mean opening the borders? In that case, how would you suggest fixing it? Can it open any borders (powerful...) or just open Kartakass?

It's definitely referring to crossing the borders. That's something that no mere magic item should be able to do; indeed, if suclh an item existed, half the villains in the Land would probably be trying to steal it. Perhaps the Crown is specifically effective against just the Kartakan border's type of defense, rendering people immune to magical sleep?

That part of the module is one of the things about Feast of Goblyns that should probably be revised a little, to keep OOC knowledge separate from what your outlander PCs can reasonably know. Rather than saying explicitly that the crown "opens the borders", you should probably phrase it as "neutralizes Kartakass's defenses". Most Ravenloft natives don't know much about domains' border closures, blaming them either on the spells of powerful rulers (e.g. Hazlan's fire-walls are thought to be a result of Hazlik's magic) or on the general weirdness of the wilderness.

If the wolfwere succeds (for some reason, typing wolfwere instead of werewolf feels very weird), how would you recommend running that? Take the affected PC to a separate room (with the module, because I don't trust my players further than I can throw a DM screen, and I'm very physically inept) and try to liberally season with horror (and probably fail)?

You don't necessarily need to separate the player from the rest of the group, so long as you prohibit the other players from intervening in the situation. It might even help build suspense for the others, if they catch on OOC that the lone PC is about to become a monster's lunch, yet can't do anything about it IC because their PCs are elsewhere. It won't give too much away if they listen in on your description of the "ferocious wolf-man" either, because they won't know it's a wolfwere rather than a werewolf, so can still be surprised by its DR/iron and its other abilities.

[Thelas]

I've heard it suggested somewhere that you start the whole party as outsiders and dead PCs get replaced by natives... Good idea? Really stupid?

[Deewun]

That is a pretty good way to do it. It harkens back to the origins of the campaign, with the "weekend in hell" motif. Except your players never leave "hell". It is also nice for players who haven't played in Ravenloft. It'll give them something to stand on they know, be it Forgotten Realms characters or Eberron characters or whatever.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

It's definitely referring to crossing the borders. That's something that no mere magic item should be able to do; indeed, if suclh an item existed, half the villains in the Land would probably be trying to steal it. Perhaps the Crown is specifically effective against just the Kartakan border's type of defense, rendering people immune to magical sleep?

I dunno, if you consider the crown an artifact, and not just a magic item, I think it's reasonable. After all, no mere magic item should let you escape the demiplane, but a Scroll of Return does. And since it's really just the MacGuffin of this one adventure, the truth of the matter never really need to come up.

It won't give too much away if they listen in on your description of the "ferocious wolf-man" either, because they won't know it's a wolfwere rather than a werewolf, so can still be surprised by its DR/iron and its other abilities.

Agreed. that goes back to the general RL DM suggestions you were looking for: #1 is describe things flavorfully and vaguely and not in game terms. Never say it's a wolfwere or greater wolfwere, or what have you. It's a hideous Man-Beast of nightmare, with bristling fur, gnashing jaws and razor-sharp claws, and a moment ago it was the vibrant young tavern wench that was giving you a come-hither stare.

If you can find it in time, you might want to get a hold of Ravenloft Gazetteer, volume I, which details Kartakass. There's lots of great flavor in there that you can add to the module, for example, instead of wolfwere, call them, narrulve, the trickster wolves. Even seasoned D&D veterans won't know quite what they are right away.

[Thelas]

I'd be surprised if I asked my players to list all D&D official types of lycanthropes and they got wolfweres. VERY surprised if they got greater wolfweres. However, I'm still using narrulve, after seeing the thing about them in the campaign log of yours.

I don't think I'll find any of the Gazeteers. I'll be slightly (but not too) lucky if I can get a real version of the RCS as opposed to a pdf I know I can get but don't really want as much.

Do you think I'll really need the RCS before I can convert Feast of Goblyns to 3e/3.5e? If so, I'll get the pdf, otherwise, I'll get a real copy if possible and start converting from non-ravenloft books.

Also, any tips for converting 2e to 3e or 3.5e? I can tell I'll probably do quite a bit of it if I run a lot of Ravenloft...

Thelas

[whalejudge]

I warn them about class and race problems, then let them go ahead with what they want.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Do you think I'll really need the RCS before I can convert Feast of Goblyns to 3e/3.5e? If so, I'll get the pdf, otherwise, I'll get a real copy if possible and start converting from non-ravenloft books.

Honestly, no, you don't really need it. What you'll get out of it rules-wise is mainly: some small alterations to the classes, the half-vistani and caliban races, some new flavorful feats and equipment, alterations to spells, rules for fear/horror/madness saves (mostly just will saves, but the effects of failed saves are spelled out), rules for powers checks, and rules for upgrading "standard" Ravenloft monsters (like lycnthropes, ghosts, vampires, etc.)

All of this is good, and I recommend getting it, but honestly, you can probably just wing it for the most part, if you have to. Just know that mortal magic can't trump the dark powers. You can't use normal spells to escape Ravenloft, or to discern alignment on the good/evil axis, or to contact deities directly, etc. Raising the dead risks coming back as undead, necromancy is more powerful than usual, but incurs powers checks.

Also, any tips for converting 2e to 3e or 3.5e? I can tell I'll probably do quite a bit of it if I run a lot of Ravenloft...

I usually just look for the 3.x version of the monster in question, and use it. If it's too high a CR, find a replacement of the right CR, or use less of them. For NPCs, just rebuild them from scratch with the appropriate classes. The "sample NPC builds" in the DMG can be really helpful there. Need a Ftr5? There he is...

[Thelas]

How about converting stuff that isn't in a standard MM?
Like wolfweres, for example, or goblyns.
I don't have the Ravenloft stuff yet, so I can't just copy them.

Also, I saw something on these fora called a "grand unified system for power checks", I believe. Can I just use that instead, would you say?

[High Priest Mikhal]

Also, I saw something on these fora called a "grand unified system for power checks", I believe. Can I just use that instead, would you say?

Take it from a DM of Ravenloft who's put in his dues: wing it with powers checks. Let the players' chosen play style determine the frequency and what actually calls for a powers check beyond certain constants (like casting spells with the Evil descriptor always require a powers check). The Unified System of Powers Checks (is that its name?) and others are good references but not necessarily hard-and-fast rules.

[Thelas]

While I was converting Feast of Goblyns, I came upon a problem.
Here, let me copy a random encounter table from the module.

1-3 wolves
4-6 dire wolves
7 werewolves
8 kobolds
9 boar
10 wereboar
11 jackal
12 jackalwere
13 wolfweres
14 wights
15 ghouls
16 goblins
17 leucrotta
18 werefox
19 Greater wolfwere
20 Loup-Garou

Quite a few of those are not in the mm, and I haven't even heard of leucrotta.
So... help converting the ones that have stats in the module and making up the rest of them? (ie what's a leucrotta?)