Spain in Ravenloft..?

[Goose Bone]

You know, there's so many domains, that I don't want to add new ones if I can adapt something that already exist within the world...

And Spanish ghost stories - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_in_Spanish_culture
More than enought, I think^^ And few may be really usefull...

[HuManBing]

La Llarona is a particularly cool staple ghost from Spanish mythology.

[Goose Bone]

Very interesting material to work... Very oldschool, just like it should be:]

[MichaelTumey]

La Llarona is a particularly cool staple ghost from Spanish mythology.

Actually that is almost like the Japanese ghost called the Ubume - which is a woman who dies in childbirth, and seeks to be with the children she could not spend with (instead of having killed them for love of a man.) However, she appears with candy or toys to illicit her childrens interest. Then she takes the young babies into the grave with her, where they die of exposure and starvation. After which the ubume spirit kidnaps other children and continues the cycle.

Here's a couple ubume tales, from hyakumonogatari.com (translations to English of Old Japanese ghost stories).

I've got ubume in Kaidan.

[Azirafel]

hi , long time lurker here but as spaniard i feel compelled to step in in behalf of Gustavo Adolfo bécquer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Ad ... C3%A9cquer
he is the best known gothic author in spanish literature and an his "legends" (leyendas) are an acurate picture of the spanish ghost histories. If you think that seems that all supernatural horror histories in spain seems to be about ghosts (often called "animas" or "almas en pena") is because that is the case! we are very monotematicall. there is some demons related legend in some places and in the northern coast and mountain ranges are fae histories, but in the main spain, there are only ghosts histories.

[alhoon]

What historical period of Spain we're talking about? Reconquista? Roman Iberia?

[ewancummins]

I'd be most interested in a romantic, somewhat ahistorical or anachronistic, setting based on a mix of Gothic novels and Spanish folklore.

The Monk is a must read for this one!

In real world historical terms, it might vaguely resemble Late Medieval or Early Modern Spain/the Spanish kingdoms.



Nidala could be worked up as 'Raven-Spain' couldn't it? It has an 'Inquisition', a history of crusades, and a powerful monotheistic church. Not only that, but IIRC, the sample names listed in the RPHB are somewhat Spanish-sounding.

[Goose Bone]

Nidala looks good and has some spanish-like atmosphere too, but I think Invidia has a much more interesting Darklord;)

[Chip]

No Ravenloft Spain would be complete without Celestina pulling the strings. Maybe she could be an ever resurrecting domain lord trying to make money as a matchmaker but always being killed by greedy accomplices.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Nidala could be worked up as 'Raven-Spain' couldn't it? It has an 'Inquisition', a history of crusades, and a powerful monotheistic church. Not only that, but IIRC, the sample names listed in the RPHB are somewhat Spanish-sounding.

It's a weird mix, though. it's got a lot of Celtic/British influence too. I don't recall the sample names in the RLPH, and don't have time to check now, but the known NPC names are a lot more english/standard-fantasy-made-up sounding: Elena Faith-hold, Lysander Greylocks, Caitlyn (Elena's Sword), Kateri, Ferran, Alexi, & Aurora Shadowborn, Dasmaria Eveningstar, Morgoroth...

[ewancummins]

On the other hands, place names like Mount Malcredo and Touraine sound less British and more Latinate/Romance, if not necessarily Spanish.

The British-Celtic-Arthurian stuff could be reworked as Spanish Celtic/Celtiberian stuff. Yes, it's a leap, but so was Germany-Falkovnia.

It's not a necessary leap, IMO. I doubt that Elena's homeworld was monocultural. The Shadowborns may have originated in a kingdom not terribly far from where Elena was born, one that had a 'British Fantasy' culture. Just as in the real world, stories of King Arthur and his knights entered into French, Spanish, and Italian culture, so tales of the 'British/Celtic' Shadowborns could have entered into Elena's more 'Spanish' home region.

That's assuming that Elena's home region actually was the model for Nidalan culture; it may not have been. Sometimes a darklord gets a domain filled with unfamilar 'foreigners.'


As far as the named NPCs go, there are a number of explanations for names that don't match the ones given in the RLPH:

• Those are not native Nidalan names, because the people with them are mostly not natives. The Shadowborns aren't natives of the domain of Nidala. Morgoroth is not even from the same world as Elena Faith-hold or the Shadowborns. Elena and the ancestral Shadowborns are all Outlanders.
  
  BTW, Elena is actually a Spanish name (it shows up in other languages/naming traditions as well).
  
  'Faith-Hold' and 'Greylocks' may be epithets, not surnames.
  
  Perhaps Nidala, like Spain at all times in recorded history, is home to more than one ethnic group? Spain has been home to Celtiberians, Basques, Visigoths, Romans, Arabs, Jews, Gypsies, etc. over the centuries. This sort of diversity may show up in some names, even if modern Nidalans have blended into one culture.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

On the other hands, place names like Mount Malcredo and Touraine sound less British and more Latinate/Romance, if not necessarily Spanish.

Agreed.

It's not a necessary leap, IMO. I doubt that Elena's homeworld was monocultural.

It wasn't. The "Great Kingdom" fought against "Grand Caliph Mudhar Ab Sang," so we know that there was some sort of arabian setting on that world as well.

The Shadowborns may have originated in a kingdom not terribly far from where Elena was born, one that had a 'British Fantasy' culture. Just as in the real world, stories of King Arthur and his knights entered into French, Spanish, and Italian culture, so tales of the 'British/Celtic' Shadowborns could have entered into Elena's more 'Spanish' home region.

Yup. Europe is after all more of a mishmash than it appears at first glance, and the same can be easily be true of fantasy worlds.

That's assuming that Elena's home region actually was the model for Nidalan culture; it may not have been. Sometimes a darklord gets a domain filled with unfamilar 'foreigners.'

Nidala was a province of the Great Kingdom, as was Avonleigh. It's not unreasonable that the different provinces had slightly different cultures.

The Shadowborns aren't natives of the domain of Nidala.

No, they aren't, but they are part of the Great Kingdom. We don't know how "Great" the kingdom was, or how monolithic, but they certainly at least understood each other, language-wise, since Kateri and Elena fought side by side and were close friends. They also worshipped the same (Celtic) god, Belenus.

Morgoroth is not even from the same world as Elena Faith-hold or the Shadowborns.

Is that so? It's been a while since I broke out ALitB. you sure?

BTW, Elena is actually a Spanish name (it shows up in other languages/naming traditions as well).

Yeah, I meant to note that but forgot to mention it.

'Faith-Hold' and 'Greylocks' may be epithets, not surnames.

Yes, but they are English epithets. It's not Tenedor-de-fe or Pelogris.

Perhaps Nidala, like Spain at all times in recorded history, is home to more than one ethnic group?

Absolutely. As much as we like to nail down domains as easily as "Dementlieu is France," none of them are absolute and monolithic. Even real France has many cultures: Gallic, Basque, Breton, Cathars, etc...

[ewancummins]

I'm pretty darned sure that Morgoroth is described as being from another world. He arrived in the Great Kingdom via a magic spell of some kind, IIRC. He had been an evil wizard in his homeworld, but had moved to a new world after rencouning Evil. He fell from grace for a second time after getting mixed up with the Shadowborns, I forget the details. I'd have to dig through my books to confirm all this. I'll check and let you know.

The Great Kingdom may well have been a multi-ethnic empire with a Great King or Queen who ruled over lesser princes.

The Church of Belenus could fill the role of the real medieval Christian Church. It seems to be set up as a monotheistic, or at least henotheistic faith. I don't see why multiple ethnic groups would not worship a universal sun-god, even outside the Great Kingdom.

Heck, the Caliph might have worshipped an aspect of the same solar deity. I'd probably have him worship Appollyon, Termagant, and Virago, though- or maybe the demon-prince Baphomet. He should have been a wicked 'pagan', not a noble but misunderstood foe.


If the Great Kingdom is a wee bit like Charlemagne's realm, Elena might have been from the (Insert cardinal direction or other place name component) Marches, her world's rough equivalent of Northern Spain/Southern France.

I haven't read the novel, Shadowborn. It apparently has some info on the Great Kingdom.

[Germaine]

Somewhere at home, I still have my notes for the Holy Empire cluster. To try to summarize, it was a huge cluster, including a sea- a la Scattered Lotus- far distant from the core, consisting mainly of netbook domains such as Mictlan, Nathan's (I think) domains, etc. The "seat of power" I called Ricoba after Andrew Wyatt's Spanish Richemulot- from which I also stole the city names- but I changed the culture somewhat, mostly did away with the wererats, and made the darklord a corrupt and sadistic inquisitor (now secretly undead) who pulls the royal family's strings. I also added a sea and an island domain, with darklords inspired by certain concepts from the otherwise-forgettable third-party hackfest "Bloody Jack's Gold". I used it, among other things, to justify weird pseudo-Hispanic characters- Punchinel and Don Pablo,anyone?- as well as Van Richten's Mesoamerican mummies. While I've never tried it myself, I think there could also be the seed of a domain in the old Paul Naschy film "The Horror Rises from the Tomb". Oh, and for the record, I always had the impression that Morgoroth hailed from a distant continent on the same world, and simply used the "mirror spell" to teleport a vast distance and stay ahead of his enemies. After all, Lambert followed him somehow.