Café de Nuit

His child could have been sent there.

alhoon wrote:His child could have been sent there.

Likely story... *eyes him suspiciously....* lol!

Jester of the FoS wrote:Odaire? Ewww.
Given all the population are children, that says something horrible about the Gentleman Caller.

You do understand it's the personification of utter evil, don't you? If you're not saying something horrible about the Gentleman Caller, you're not doing it properly.

Ryan Naylor wrote:

Jester of the FoS wrote:Odaire? Ewww.
Given all the population are children, that says something horrible about the Gentleman Caller.

You do understand it's the personification of utter evil, don't you? If you're not saying something horrible about the Gentleman Caller, you're not doing it properly.

He's an incubus right? I forget, but i seem to remember something about him making freak children for some plan.... not just for funzies.... did anyone ask the question as to what his ultimate goal was?

Yes, he is an incubus. Yes, his plan is a Solved Mystery. Look at all the discussion about the Gazetteer metaplot again.

Ryan Naylor wrote:Yes, he is an incubus. Yes, his plan is a Solved Mystery. Look at all the discussion about the Gazetteer metaplot again.

Thanks for the direction! (goes to hunt down wherever the meta plot is)

Going by our plans for the Gentleman Caller, a dukkar included in the Odiare gazetteer (while most likely a young child, I would think), wouldn't have a native Odiaran for a mother.

Zilfer wrote:Thanks for the direction! (goes to hunt down wherever the meta plot is)

http://fraternityofshadows.com/TheParlo ... or_her.doc

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Zilfer wrote:Thanks for the direction! (goes to hunt down wherever the meta plot is)

http://fraternityofshadows.com/TheParlo ... or_her.doc

As an example of possible fallout, Azalin's success would likely spark a war across most of the western Core, which would in turn probably crush Borca.

Mystery: How would Drakov's Talons cross Borca's borders since they can be sealed.
Maloccio? Another demon? Alliance with Ivana to allow his armies crush Borca in order to deal with Ivan?

Who was Ezra? Hala? Yutow?

What is the History of the Blood Knife? Where is its domain of origin?

Where/when do the Vistani come from?

When is Madame Eva?

Where is the Golden Eyed Youth with the Silver Blade? (Tentative canon question inferred from the collector card and the existence of Hoelgar Arnuttson.

alhoon wrote:

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Zilfer wrote:Thanks for the direction! (goes to hunt down wherever the meta plot is)

http://fraternityofshadows.com/TheParlo ... or_her.doc

As an example of possible fallout, Azalin's success would likely spark a war across most of the western Core, which would in turn probably crush Borca.

Mystery: How would Drakov's Talons cross Borca's borders since they can be sealed.
Maloccio? Another demon? Alliance with Ivana to allow his armies crush Borca in order to deal with Ivan?

Baroca's boarder sealing is actually one of the weaker border seals. It just turns the water you drink into a poison that will kill you if you leave Borca. Thus an invading army could invade across a "sealed" border and they would be fine so long as they don't try to leave the domain. It keeps people from getting out but not getting in.

This is as opposed to a "strong" border close like Richemulot where the rats will keep people from getting in and people from getting out.

Speaking of Richemulot, crushing Borca might be a lot easier said than done, it all depends on if the Treaty of the Four Towers holds, how many of Richemulot's lycanthropes Jacqueline can convince to fight to aid nation that she's allied to, and while Maloccio is not cursed to always loose the way Vlad is, he might end up getting dragged down all the same (IE the Dark Powers insist that Vlad is never allowed to win a war, and if Borca gets conquered by Falkovnia and Invidia that would mean that Vlad won, so obviously regardless of what the numbers or the strategic position, the Dark Powers will demand that SOMETHING happen that causes Vlad and Maloccio to loose if they attack together)/ and if Maloccio starts focusing his army north towards Borca it leaves the door open for his mother and her rebels to try and unseat him in turn...

Borders work two ways usually. Hence I believe Talons that had entered Borca in the past, would die at the border as they crossed in.
As for Jaquiline... why would she actually care that Borca is getting crushed? She's not a good person. War in Borca helps her promote her plans to turn people to wererats and perhaps spread plague in Borca to hasten that.
Richemulot is safe from Talons as long as Jaqueline doesn't want Talons in. Falkovnia is no threat and the treaty serves just as a political tool. As long as her people fear the big evil Talons, Louise will find fewer allies. But does Jaqueline mind a few hundred Talons impaling her citizens? If yes, then those Talons wouldn't get in. If though the death of a few hundreds serves her purpose, she will do it. And fall in love with a Talon

alhoon wrote:Borders work two ways usually. Hence I believe Talons that had entered Borca in the past, would die at the border as they crossed in.
As for Jaquiline... why would she actually care that Borca is getting crushed? She's not a good person. War in Borca helps her promote her plans to turn people to wererats and perhaps spread plague in Borca to hasten that.
Richemulot is safe from Talons as long as Jaqueline doesn't want Talons in. Falkovnia is no threat and the treaty serves just as a political tool. As long as her people fear the big evil Talons, Louise will find fewer allies. But does Jaqueline mind a few hundred Talons impaling her citizens? If yes, then those Talons wouldn't get in. If though the death of a few hundreds serves her purpose, she will do it. And fall in love with a Talon

Yeah, I strongly doubt a Borcan invasion would send too many military units into Falkovnia from Dementlieu, Richemulot or Mordent. I can see the national delegations from those nations seeking some form of truce to reinstate the peace and find themselves skewered through. Yes something may occur to really stem the tide (fully deployed into Borca, troops along the other 'Tower nations', may be just the opportunity to unleash another Darkonian plot in a northern city or the rebellion to make a move at supply trains and other key targets within the nation. Like Invidia mentioned above, things can occur to hamper the war effort (especially for Drakov).

alhoon wrote:Borders work two ways usually. Hence I believe Talons that had entered Borca in the past, would die at the border as they crossed in.
As for Jaquiline... why would she actually care that Borca is getting crushed? She's not a good person. War in Borca helps her promote her plans to turn people to wererats and perhaps spread plague in Borca to hasten that.
Richemulot is safe from Talons as long as Jaqueline doesn't want Talons in. Falkovnia is no threat and the treaty serves just as a political tool. As long as her people fear the big evil Talons, Louise will find fewer allies. But does Jaqueline mind a few hundred Talons impaling her citizens? If yes, then those Talons wouldn't get in. If though the death of a few hundreds serves her purpose, she will do it. And fall in love with a Talon

I'm really not sure the border close to Borca works like that.

"Any drink in Borca, even water from a stream, can become a poison that imprisons characters in this domain. Imported beverages act the same. When either Ivan or Ivana wants to seal Borca, a change takes place in the fabric of the land and air at the edge of the domain. The borders become a catalyst for the drink. When someone leaves Borca, the drink turns to lethal poison. The victim immediately feels feverish and woozy and will die in a few turns unless he reenters the domain. The drink remains potent for forty-eight hours and can be triggered as long as the borders are active."

That's from http://voltor.narod.ru/dod/dod02016.htm and it sounds just about right (I don't have access to my copy of Gazetteer 4) except that Ivan is not allowed to close the boarder. I don't recall it ever being mentioned in any book that the automatic border closing could kill people who are entering it, Ivana's mother had to poison people the old fashion way (well have her followers do it) during the Widow's Massacre.



I'd argue that Jacqueline would care about Borca being crushed... but you're right that it's an important question to consider and she very much would not do it from the kindness of her heart or fear that Richemulot would be next.

For one thing, saving it from said crushing would help raise her own personal prestige and her country's as well. To me one of Jacqueline's goals has always been to make Richemulot be seen as one of the power players in the core, one of the movers and shakers in a way that Falkovnia currently is economically (more in spite of Vlad's rulership than because of it) and Dementlieu is culturally. If Richemulot sits back and does nothing when Falkovnia invades than the treaty of the Four Towers is going to fall apart right then and there, because the entire point of it is "If Falkovnia invades, we've got your back" so whatever benefits she gains from the Treaty (even if she doesn't care about the military ones) they're done if she does nothing.

Dementlieu came up with the idea for the Treaty of the Four Towers, but Richemulot is the domain with the highest population and in theory the most capability of force projection (certainly the most force projection into Borca since it shares a border with Borca while Dementlieu and Mordent do not. Not to mention since Jacqueline's control Richemulot's wererats is based on blackmail and bribery it extends across borders in a way that say Azalin's control of the undead does not) so if any nation is going to help it's going to be Richemulot, and if Richemulot does help, it would allow her to further promote that "US to UK" dynamic that I've talked about in some of my posts here where Dementlieu has the culture, but Richemulot gets s**t done and has economic/military power.

All of this is based on the principle that Jacqueline doesn't have the becoming plague ready to roll out of course (especially if she's allowed to control infected wererats when they transform same way she can normal/dire rats but that's never expressly stated), but if she has it actually working then will the last non-wererat human please turn the lights out? Because Jacqueline would probably end up taking over just about every part of the Core (minus Darkon, Verbeck, and Shadow Rift) with an ever growing army of wererats cackling "Kekeke!" all the while.

I agree with you that regardless of if Borca gets crushed or not, no conventional army (and Vlad is always striving to make his army as "conventional" as possible) is going to be able to invade a domain of 40K+ people with 4K+ wererats, a boarder whose closure makes is the next best thing to cross in either direction unless Jacqueline wants them to, I'm just saying that saving Borca could be in Jacqueline's interest because it would help her goal of making Richemulot more politically powerful /prominent in the Core, and she might be able to squeeze some favors out of Ivana or Ivan as well (say some doses of Borrowed Time along with a reasonable supply of Mercy with Louise's name on it...)

That said my view of Jacqueline may not synch with yours (she's a complicated character like most Darklords) and so there are doubtlessly both pros and cons to helping Borca or leaving it to twist in the wind.


Once again I am fully aware that this may just be my own bias for/interest in Richemulot/Jacqueline speaking so feel free to take this with a huge scoop of salt.

Dark Angel wrote:Yeah, I strongly doubt a Borcan invasion would send too many military units into Falkovnia from Dementlieu, Richemulot or Mordent. I can see the national delegations from those nations seeking some form of truce to reinstate the peace and find themselves skewered through. Yes something may occur to really stem the tide (fully deployed into Borca, troops along the other 'Tower nations', may be just the opportunity to unleash another Darkonian plot in a northern city or the rebellion to make a move at supply trains and other key targets within the nation. Like Invidia mentioned above, things can occur to hamper the war effort (especially for Drakov).

I do agree that a counter invasion is unlikely/not going to happen, but what I would expect as a start would be that the wererats of Mortigny might start sneaking across/be ordered across the boarder into Borca. According to Gazetteer 3, Mortigny has a population of 8,280 and given the general rough estimate of 45,330 demi-humans and 4,390 wererats in addition (it has to be addition not a subset because they list more werewolves than demi-humans in Verbrek) that works out to around 800 wererats. How many of those are true and how many are infected I've got no idea at all. I've also got no idea how many Jacqueline would convince/order to temporarily move into Borca and start hunting Falkovnians. I've got no idea exactly how many troops Vlad and and Malocchio would deploy between them to conquer Borca.

I also don't know exactly how numerous the Renier clan was back in 694 and the Year of the Impaled Rats, or how many soldiers Vlad sent to kick them out (IE what the standard wererat to Falkovnian soldier casualty rate is like).

Basically, there are a lot of variables here, it'd be interesting to have someone math hammer this s**t out, but it would require someone with more free time/knowledge of the background/what the developers intended then me.

Once again I am fully aware that this may just be my own bias for/interest in Richemulot/Jacqueline speaking so feel free to take this with a huge scoop of salt.