Darklords of the New Age: Comments thread

[Manofevil]

Very Tristessa-ish. Good for atmosphere I think. This is also another kind of Darklord that should be more common than it is. Though not too much more common.

[Checco]

Well I posted Princess Stella, I hope wolf doesnt mind.

Imho, you just helped him to bring this contest's round near the end, I'm sure no one will mind.

About the entry, it is a very sweet (in its sadness) and well-written tale.

The DL has the numbers to be such, though I think the domain itself might lack the chance to play several adventures.

Maybe making Stella awaken every year instead of every hundred years, and adding one or more villages near the woods could help (just my 2 cents, of course).

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I like the concept of her reliving her curse and there's good story behind it, but I just don't think she did enough to warrant DL-hood. I have a feeling Stella might've had some mental problems (paranoid schitzoprena perhaps) but she's only did one act of darkness and while it was out of her being spoiled and paranoid, there have been other baddies who have done a lot worse with much worse intentions but aren't DLs.

[NykylaiHellray]

Well there is another idea I have been contemplating and thats te viceroy.

As in some ways he is the cause of the curse by slowly making her more paranoid and being the conductor of her grief.

A person who is not a darklord, but helping create one and keeping it running for his benifit.

Also the idea is more of a dark fairy tale, more sad then dripping in evil=)

[Checco]

Nyklai, if you have more entries to post (as I think to have read), please post the next, it does not look like you posting Princess Stella did any harm .

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

not much to say about these last two. good solid entries.

I too would've preferred Sabrina's dam break to have succeeded, perhaps wiping out the town in addition to her enemies, rather than instead.

Stella's got a great dark fairy tale vibe, but her forgetting the actions that made her a DL makes her more pitiful than a darklord should be, IMHO. One might argue that if she can't remember it, she's a different person than the version of her that should be punished. (kind of how the ensouled Angel (from Angel, of course) was punished alongside Angelus, who was the one who really deserved it. That always troubled me.)

[NykylaiHellray]

The main point of her curse if thats shes damned to repeat her mistakes over and over despite how many attempts she gets.

Though now I think about it more and more, I think that almost she is a puppet darklord, and that the real power is the viceroy.

But I am still wondering what he gains.


Anyway posted my second and last entry. I dont know how he will go down with you lot, as he is supposed to be a very big departure from a normal darklord. But its hard to say much without spoiling some of the mystery.

His story has many different versions, which each one contain a sliver of truth. One says the city became sentiant and killed its creator. Which is also true in a respect. Some also say he used the demiplane to become a darklord on purpose.

The idea is, the city is more of a collection of beings each worthy of being darklords. But the city collects then and incorperates them into itself, they all believe themselves to be independant but they are now but mere cogs.

So its best to think as the city as some sort of cancer.

[Igor the Henchman]

I'm sorry, Nik, to be offering negative input on this quite innovative entry, which I had very eagerly expected. I really really like the basic idea. But it turned out to be a bit of a downer for me.

My main problem is this: the entry gives close to zero dependable information regarding the Train Master. I mean sure, the rumors are cool, but as DM, I just can't run the NPC without some definite info. To point:

What are his current schemes?
What sort of control does he exert on his domain?
What's his personality like?
Is he smart?
Is he only semi-sentient?
Does he have a tragic past?
Does he have irrational desires?
Does he have a physical body of some sort?
How can the PCs stop him?
Can he be fought?
Can he be killed?
What sort of adventures does he fit into?
Does he have interesting minions?
Etc, etc.

The entry uses a very vivid, very evocative writing style that eats up a lot of the word count. Normally, that would be alright, but here, the space is all taken by a single long "background" entry full of vague assertions that might or might not be true. No space left to discuss the darklord's modus operandi or ideas on how to involve him in actual encounters. So if, for instance, the Train Master is actually a collection of beings, it would be useful to describe some of these key individuals and what they are up to.

I think the Train Master entry presents great starting ideas, but they really need to be more developed. Perhaps "spoiling some of the mystery" is a necessary evil to make the NPC actually playable at a game table.

Also, this:

The idea is, the city is more of a collection of beings each worthy of being darklords. But the city collects then and incorperates them into itself, they all believe themselves to be independant but they are now but mere cogs.

So its best to think as the city as some sort of cancer.

...probably should have been included in the actual description.

I think this is the harshest review I've given yet on this contest - I'm really sorry. I think the concept is a beautiful one, and could be made to truly knock everybody's socks off if it were developed just a little more.

[Checco]

I'm going to tell my opinion, admitting first of all that it's a little biased by the fact the no matter how well it's created (to make it short), the train inside any gothic (let alone fantasy, though it's not the case here) setting takes away much flavour IMHO.

I have to explain what I mean, after making the example of Eberron (where I'm among those thinking that trains and fantasy don't mix); while the presence of train as a late innovation, time-wise in the setting, or something more like a routine, is not spoiling the gothic atmosphere (Bram Stoker's Dracula has trains but it's nonetheless perfectly gothic), it literally chokes to death anything like long travels by boat, horse, cart and of course feet.

The chance to move quickly in the land (any land) goes agaist the concept of 'isolation' which is the bone of many adventures.

Why should I fear a pursuing enemy when I could literally use 24 hours to go from a corner of the Core to another? How can the Kargat, assassin guilds, the town's lycanthrope be a threat if I can make a ticket and say goodbye to most of them? How can medieval CL domains remain such, while using such technology?

To avoid making a too long post, my conclusion is that the presence of the train is viable in cases like Dracula, where it's essential for the plot and untimately cannot damage the old vampire's plans, but it can be rather harmful in many others.

[Isabella]

How can the Kargat, assassin guilds, the town's lycanthrope be a threat if I can make a ticket and say goodbye to most of them?

I'm pretty sure the Kargat can buy train tickets.

[Igor the Henchman]

That's another issue with Grand Central. This is already the fourth installment, and we still don't know what its trains are actually supposed to do. Do the trains leave the domain? Which domains do they connect? Who rides on them? Everyone? Only the wealthy? Only the corrupt? Is there danger involved? Are there hidden monsters on board? Is train access controlled by a secret organization? Or are the trains themselves sentient? How does the railwork fit into the Core?

[Checco]

How can the Kargat, assassin guilds, the town's lycanthrope be a threat if I can make a ticket and say goodbye to most of them?

I'm pretty sure the Kargat can buy train tickets.

I'm sure as well than unless the Kargat sends human fighters/rogues after you, he would send a supernatural creature like a vampire, which would require the 'train' itself to be analyzed as a location, in this example:

-Can a vampire enter uninvited a train? (I'd say yes, it should be a public place)
-What happens when a vampire aboard a train crosses running water? (iirc, he should not die as it would the same of crossing it with a boat, though I recall as well vampires which cannot even approach water)
-How does the people reacts to exposed supernatural creatures aboard a train, considering that the word would easily spread because of the easiness of communications while distance is a small thing, and most children of the night live and survive because the commonfolk think they are just superstitions?
-Will a vampire use the train if it departs too close to dawn (maybe at 4 AM during summer)? Wouldn't he risk to die caught by the sunlight, to end too away from his coffin, or be forced to act in the middle of 30-40 people as he lacks time? (also Iirc, several vampires can do nothing but hastily return to their coffin as the dawn approaches)
-(more general) What happens when the train tries to cross a closed domain's borders? Would a train exiting a closed Barovia result in choking to death every passenger without mercy or chance to revert quickly its direction?

These are just few example of how many things would have to be considered, discussed and adapted while putting a train in many places of Ravenloft. (I think the Kargat would wonder whether it's more dangerous to let the PCs flee on the train or send aboard a children of the night which could be exposed).

It's not that your reply was without sense, but I hope I explained more clearly my opinion.

[A G Thing]

Checco, I have to say I disagree with your opinion in that I don't see that it takes any flavor away at all. The train provides fast travel but it runs on a schedule and it is in a defined location in the town. Trains are new, and they are fast true, but that does not mean that boat travel will end or that horse and cart travel will be less of an option. A ticket will be expensive to almost every non noble, and while perhaps there will be more travelers in some stations, trains will be a novelty to most, and luxury to others. Moving quickly is fine but if you miss the train, the engine is damaged, the engineer dies or is hurt, or the tracks have been destroyed a train is just a land mark. Using a train to escape a pursuing enemy is just not a sure escape just as if you set sail on a boat, and the creature or villain manages to get on board as well, the boat is damaged or set ablaze, or the seas are choppy. Next is the fact that if there is a monster and the town has hired the PC's or they volunteered, then when they flee leaving the towns people to their fate, not only did they betray the towns trust, but they should be branded cowards, and you can make rumors of continued suffering news as they hear that the horror they left behind is still waiting should they return. One thing about trains is that they carry news and stories of problems in other lands might become quite distorted but will reach others ears.

Now sending a vampire I don't see the issue really... If the vampire get's on the train then it would have to leave the train before the sun rose if it did not prepare. Of course if this was at night then there may be plenty of chances for confrontation or violence.

-Now as for crossing a river, then it is like a boat as it is being carried over it, but I would perhaps rule that it has to halt for a second as it is a little unnatural, perhaps revealing it.
-Entering a train would be fine if the Vampire bought a ticket perhaps, or even if you did as you suggest and made it a public place.
-Exposing people to the unnatural on a train would I think be the same as when a Vampire is in any public forum.
-As for when the stories of these creatures travel, to compare they traveled in our world some and people did not think anything more of them other then to sensationalize them, so I don't see why if they can hide now that a train will reveal them. Like I said above I think that the stories would be distorted by the telling or that those just passing through such towns would think it some sort of quaint local color as they do. It would perhaps bring those adventurous fops to profit or debunk such as a natural occurrence but they would most often not find the monster, or when they do not live to tell about it in most cases. Most common folk won't ride the train often as profits would be from cargo mostly so there won't be a sudden revealing of monsters to the world. Heck the common folk can't prove the monsters exist as they seem to be telling folk tales or simple minded superstitions. Only experienced adventurers and monster hunters would listen seriously.
-Now if a vampire got on a train at dawn, then it was because of bad planning, the luck of the draw, he had a way to deal with it, or would have to abandon such efforts I am sure unless you allow vampires to be awake during day or he is a Nosferatu. Perhaps the Kargat keep reserves of grave dirt filled boxes at rail stations for just such occasions, but if it was so early then perhaps they also have a less daylight weakened option for such pinches.
-Now as for a train crossing closed domain boarders then perhaps there are things the dark powers do to prevent such tragedies. They might cause the train to appear at another part of Ravenloft, or they trap the train in the mists for a time until they could safely pass... Another option is that the train appears on another track that leads right back into the domain in question and this can cause issues. Or perhaps it is simply that the stations would be close to the misty boarders so that a rider might check or that the station might see if it was closed. These phenomena could be regular enough that the trains might be planned around them, and while these things might still happen it is a risk some are willing to take for the profit of time and money.

Now as for Igor's comments on the Train Master and Grand Central, I must agree that while I like the vague and well written background, it is needing a serious rewrite only because the details need to be spelled out here. I love the idea and it was great I just want the true facts of the story or at the least all the tales to work out which I think fits. As for grand central and some of the questions on the trains, the extent of their trips, and the who rides them should be important, but as for the monsters on the train, if they actually are sentient or the secret societies, that could be alluded to vaguely but it is up to the DM unless it directly affects the Darklord. Now if the Train Master can control the trains then that is part of it and it should be listed. But plot hooks should be vague in some respects. Still details will help because while we have his motivation, and it is artistic, it is not very personal nor do we understand fully why he (or they) fell into darkness...

Nothing personal meant by this I just wanted to say this as I want to learn more about this domain and I feel that trains fit just fine in Ravenloft.

I do like it a lot...

[Isabella]

I, obviously, agree with A G Thing. But then again, I love trains.

[A G Thing]

Well I did like that idea of yours Isabella, and have added it to the next Ravenloft game I run. I was glad to see it in QtR!

Another reason why this domain would be so good is it could fit in to your trains of the core line in some fashion!

I got some ideas on how it would work in that game already!