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Discussing all things Ravenloft
DennisKuester
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Post by DennisKuester »

Hmm... it must have been a year or so since I last thought about this at all. I guess I overlooked a lot in the GAZs.

So what's the question? Why does Azalin send S. out on this grand trip? Why S. and not someone else? What does he need the bracers for? And how do the GCs children factor in? Also, why would the GC spawn all these children? Why these, and no others? And why all of them dispersed across the whole demiplane? Does Azalin know why the GC did this?

Well, I have just about no clue - but guessing is fun, so why not?

Guess 1: It doesn't seem likely that both the GC and Azalin share the same agenda for the children

Guess 2: There's some reason why they are so spread out. And Azalin seems to know pretty early on that S. will have to travel the entire demiplane in order to learn all he needs to know

Guess 3: The reason for them being so spread out might have to do with availability of fitting mating partners? hmm. Or because something might happen if they all came together? Or they need to be tailored to each domain somehow?

Guess 4: Well, if I understood and remember this right, the GC has some kind of reality wrinkle - and reality wrinkles have something to do with a connection to the land. The whole demiplane started with Strahd forging his connection to Barovia...

Guess 5: So maybe the GC is trying to do something else than all other fiends? Something at a much grander scale? I'd think that his offspring likely won't have a reality wrinkle themselves - but might the GC-part of their souls inherit something like both? The connection to the land that special natives of a particular domain share, as well as the reality-wrinkling essence of the fiend? Is the GC perhaps trying to connect to every-single domain in the demiplane by his blood? Some kind of greater blood ritual? Are the chilldren to be sacrificed in some way? Or does he want them to wrest control of domains from the DLs? The latter seems unlikely, though...

Guess 6: In RL, every single domain has it's own special essence, it's very special feeling to it, etc. Of course the DL plays a role, but there's always talk of the land.

Guess 7: Why a war throughout the western core? Why would other factions be un-affected? And if this is but a side effect? Well.. many of the children appear to be relatively "weak". It seems unlikely that they would all become darklords, or any such thing

Guess 8: Azalin seeks to learn about each of the children, but there's no mentioning of attempts to capture them, or move agianst them, or anything. Perhaps they still have to do something before he'd take any action. What could this be? Do the bracers have any connection to this? Do they help Azalin to identify or control any of the GC's offspring? Or do they let him participate in whatever effect their existance creates?

Guess 9: I'd imagine that whatever is going to happen with the children would create adventure opportunies for every single domain. E.g., maybe PCs could start anywhere, and become involved to something related to the particular GC-child in the area. I'd imagine that whatever that is, it would always have to do with altering the domain by the influence of the spawn. quite subtly at first, then maybe more strongly. So what would happen, if anyone killed any of the children? Would that disrupt the greater things at work? Likely not. In the grand conjunction, the PCs could be quite "successfull" all the time, and still the whole thing would move on. Also. I'd think that whatever the children are supposed to be doing would created a series of connected adventures spanning several levels. Maybe, as each of them performs some kind of vile act, something that would cause a very special tragedy in that domain, the threat caused by the remaining ones, the GC, and Azalin would increase? Starting to tear on the fabric of the demiplane, or something?

Is Azalin trying to destroy the dark powers? Or trying to use extortion against them?

...likely all wrong anyhow - but I'd think I could think of something fun if I was still running a campaign :wink:
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Post by DennisKuester »

a final wild guess ((likely to be contradicted by other things?)):

S. is the child of the Gentleman Caller in Darkon. Azalin became aware of her and recognized her eventual potential. The bracer marks her as his. Maybe, as by the plan of the GC, all of his children are going to be destroyed after they have surved a particularly vile purpose - to spread chaos across the entire demi-plane. Maybe each grows stronger with the death of each preceding one, adding some kind of domain specific power to the other spawn (?). The bracer seems to be able to keep S. alive. Maybe he plans to disrupt the GC's plans by keeping her alive at the right point of time??
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Post by artent »

I beleive this has been refuted somplace in the past several pages. We are trying to move away from guesses at this point.
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Post by Mangrum »

Since people are still guessing about the war of the western core thing, let me repeat with added emphasis:

This isn't a mystery. I swear to you, it's in the Borca report in Gaz IV. It isn't even hinted at -- S discusses it directly. Just read the book!
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Post by Pamela »

Good thing my husband's just ordered that Gazetteer last week.

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Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Well all I've found is page 32, under Diplomacy, Invidia: regarding the border skirmishes between Ivan's enforcers and Mallocchio's vistani hunters: "Should Ivan overplay his hand, he may well provoke Falkovnia and Invidia into closing their jaws around around Borca, an assuredly brutal conflict."

And in the final thoughts on page 37, "Without Ivan's treacherous diplomacy, however, Borca's borders would be far more vulnerable to its foes."

Both observations make sense, and the alliance between Mallocchio and Drakov definately threatens Borca more than anyone, just based on geography. But aside from his usual sniping comments, I don't see any interest in there from Azalin. (Granted John said it would be a side effect, not a goal of Az.) So (unless I missed a more blatant reference in admittedly quick skim) we're still not sure what action Azalin would take that would cause the tension in Borca to snap into war.

(wild speculation: we think Azalin's plans involve Mallocchio. If they involve freeing Mallocchio from Invidia, he might personally lead some vistani-hunting raids into Borca, which could lure Ivan into a personal confrontation that ignites into war. But I wouldn't call that obvious from the text.)
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Post by Stygian Inquirer »

DennisKuester wrote:a final wild guess ((likely to be contradicted by other things?)):

S. is the child of the Gentleman Caller in Darkon.
Refuted several times, several pages ago. Originally, it was confirmed as false by Ryan Naylor.
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Post by ChrisNichols »

Mangrum wrote:Since people are still guessing about the war of the western core thing, let me repeat with added emphasis:

This isn't a mystery. I swear to you, it's in the Borca report in Gaz IV. It isn't even hinted at -- S discusses it directly. Just read the book!
Hell, go back and read Gaz II. There's very direct references to war in the western core there.

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Post by Stygian Inquirer »

I will venture another guess based on the RL:CS 3E. When Azalin was one with all the minds in Darkon, he heard the Dark Powers whispering and he found out that they were not omniscient. Azalin wants to use the G.C.'s children because they have reality wrinkles and are not that powerful, and therefore can be controlled, to sever his connection to the land so that he can resurrect Irik and then have Malocchio freed so that Malocchio can take Irik back to Oerth to continue Azalin's legacy there.
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Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

I was rereading the Gaz IV yesterday and I found this before John's post:
The Gazetteer Volume IV, Page 32 wrote:Lord Ivan reportedly wants to place an open bounty on Aderre's head, but the Invidian tyrant hides behind his alliance with Drakov. Should Ivan overplay his hand, he may well provoke Falkovnia and Invidia into closing thier jaws around Borca, an assuredly brutal conflict.
And I think Chris was talking about this passage from the Gaz II:
The Gazetteer Volume II, Page 103 wrote:Recently, Drakov's ever roving eye has turned again south; his inner circle of generals is making plans for Dementlieu to demonstrate the folly of the Treaty. Dementlieu is prepare to come to the aid of the other Treaty domains in teh event of Falkovian aggression. Unfortunately, economic necessity demands that Dementlieu import grain and other grops form Falkovnia, in addition to other trade relations.
And from the Gaz III:
The Gazetteer III, Page 29 wrote:Shoud Drakov discover [Josephine Chantreaux's] activiteis, Josephine risks triggering a new attack from Falkovnia. She is acutely aware of the risk, but her childhood anguish will not allow her to do any less against the cruel tyrant.
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Post by Don Fernando »

This is like reading the Bible: one line, thousand different interpretations. :roll:
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Post by Jester of the FoS »

But it begs the question, we know why Borca is crushed (joint threat from Invidia and Falkovnia and the Treaty lands joining against Falkovnia) but we don't know how Azalin's plan triggers it.
Ideas?
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Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Does everything in the Gazetteers have to be linked to Azalin's plan?
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Joël of the FoS
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Post by Joël of the FoS »

Don't forget Borca being crushed is a consequence of Azalin's master plan (hint by John).

What could trigger it? I think the key to Azalin's plan is this sentence by Ryan :
This quest (S's) (which, knowing Azalin as we do, can only involve an escape attempt from Ravenloft) somehow involves the Gentleman Caller and his children and various dukkars and Vistani outcasts, including the Tribe of Hyskosa who are dedicated to thwarting Azalin's schemes.
We know some of the GC children are close to the darklordship power in some domains (Invidia and Falkovnia at least). So what does this plan involves?

Use of the reality wrinkle of these half-fiend children?

Killing the darklords simultaneously in these domains to create another catastrophic event?

And what is S's role in it?

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Post by Jester of the FoS »

See, that's my biggest problem with this whole thread. We have Ryan saying "Yeah, it's Azalin so it must be an escape attempt" while Mangrum says "Azalin is smart enough that he knows now if he does escape he'll be snatched up again so the plan is different".

If two writers who worked on the project can't even figure out the same interpretation what hope do we masses have....


Now I wonder if something like this might be the plan:
brothersale wrote:I agree with ScS, i read through the gaz and came to the conclusions that Azalin's has given up on trying to escape and instead now wants his pound of flesh from those he thinks are in charge. The biggest indicator of this was when 'S' was discussing Darkon's history and he commented that "Dreams are tencious things, little scholar, but eventually even they must die." who knows this could be what leads up to the Time of Unparalleled Darkness, we already know that thanks to Venca if a darklord ignores the bait of the DPs he can break free causing untold damage to neighboring domains in the process, and since old Azalin is on the largest and oldest of the land masses of the Mist it may even distrupt the place entirely.
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