Café de Nuit

I've always liked George Weathermay, my group calls him 'Van Helsing' though. xD Since they didn't know his name before.

Interesting note: until 3e, Timothy didn't have a curse, unless for some reason not having a shadow counts as a curse for him. Now, it's transforming back into human form whenever he is overcome with emotion, which is pretty unpleasant for someone who hate humans and wants to lose himself in the savagery of the wolf.

A note on alignments: In 2e, Alfred Timothy was LE, and had sphere access very like a druid. In 3e, he became the NE cleric of a CE god. I'm now in two minds about what alignment he should actually be. On one hand, he is forced by his curse to be completely disciplined and dispassionate. On the other, he also longs to run wild and free and doesn't seem to go in for a lot of forward planning. Back on the first hand again, wolves have a big commitment to pack society. So which fits better - LE or NE? For that matter, I'm sure the Wolf God should be NE as well, for similar reasons, so either is within game rules for him.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

No shadow, huh? I wonder if we could find some explanation for this...

Maybe the CE Wolf God is a reflection of the original LE Alfred or the chaotic side of Alfred that he suppressed split off. Jekyll and Hyde stuff. I definately like a NE Alfred caught between his god and law/discipline/civilization.

Also, the dwarf who loses his hand in the Shroud (from the Forgotten Children book the Kargatane released) is a great adventure - very evocative. I highly recommend it. I've in fact run variations on it three times in different campaigns.

Is this the one with the crawling claw? Do you have any idea if this was inspired by an old black and white movie? The monster and this adventure in particular always seem to remind me of a movie that i must have watched when very young. Recollection is very hazy but I do feel quite sure that such a movie exists.

As always it seems the more I delve into information dumps like these and they get me excited about a world I never have too much of a chance to play in or DM. Each passing tidbit of secret knowledge brings me closer to the realization of just how much of Ravenloft I DONT KNOW! xD

Guess that's how the FoS in game must feel like. XD

Possibly the greatest RL research document ever made.

Joël

The Giamarga wrote:

Ryan Naylor wrote:To round all this out, a history of the fiends of Ravenloft:

This is awesome stuff. I'll have to delve back and read the rest of the thread....

Do you have statblocks planned for the big name fiends/outsiders? Anyone get any class levels? The GC would be a prime candidate imho.

You do realise this is all in the netbook version, so you don't actually have to delve back into the thread, don't you?

Well, that stats aren't, but everything else that you comment on.

Previous incarnations of the Demiplane is in the intro of RL3e.

No, nothing happening in Greyhawk that's of intergalactic importance that I could see, because the timeline in 2e ended, and the 3e timeline jumped backwards I think, so they never covered this period.

Given this is a serious research document (:)), I didn't speculate about the big NPCs. I have talked about George Weathermay elsewhere though - his final fate inevitably is mutually assured destruction with Natalia Vhoriskova (or however that is spelt). Jander's closure was written into the end of Vampire of the Mists; I really hope he finds peace somewhere, because I love him and the end of that book. Dragonov will potentially walk the earth forever. Alanik Ray should fall from a waterfall or a tower or something. Really, they're all too useful to GMs in individual campaigns to lock down into anything concrete. This is about providing resources and inspiration (and sharing my obsession), not about me telling my story and blocking off yours. That's why I resisted providing any clues about Ratik's murderer in VRGttWD - that's your story to tell, not for us to link canonically into a particular NPC or event.

However, vampyre revolution in Falkovnia in the later stages of the War of the Core would make perfect sense - all of Drakov's troops are out in the field, weakening Drakov's hold over Falkovnia enough that the vampyres sense weakness and rise up. Drakov then is forced to fight a war on two fronts, which causes him to lose the southern front, just when things were looking up for him (having crushed Borca, made Dementlieu fold in on itself and invaded Barovia to go toe to toe with Strahd). Not only is it logical, it ties in perfectly with his curse. "If only those damn vampyres hadn't risen up, I could have defeated Strahd, I know it! And betrayed by my own family as well... Next time, next time" [commence purging]. And of course, many of the soldiers forced to pull back to defend Drakov's rule in Falkovnia will be infected by the Becoming Plague...

A nice circularity with the Reniers first being drawn into Ravenloft through Falkovnia as well.


If I were to hypothesise about Alfred's shadow, I would say it actually pulled away and became the Wolf God (since we more or less know that it only became real when he became darklord). And I would then draw in the idea of the Jungian shadow, and say the Wolf God is Alfred as he wishes he was - fierce, strong, bloody handed and savage, rather than tied to a weak human body. I wouldn't explicitly make it the suppressed chaotic side, since that's treading dangerously close to Malken and I like to keep my archetypes distinct.

That may mean that Alfred's shadow/Wolf God is actually physically out there in Ravenloft as a shadow or nightshade or shadow demon or tenebris, cut loose when Alfred became darkord. And that means you could hunt down the Wolf God and kill it, potentially.

I think Alfred is NE not because he's attached to the idea of civilisation, but because he likes the idea of the pack and that semi-structured society. He's not CE because he's too clever to buy into that "might gives right" mentality - it's too likely to backfire on him. I think he's probably very attuned to his own preservation - too committed to his own power and survival and selfishness - to value individualism enough to be CE. That's how I read it, anyway.


Yes, it's the one with the crawling claw. It's a reference to some old black and white movie - the Farside cartoon "The Return of the Nose of Doctor Verlucci" is referring to the same thing. I just can't remember what it's called...

Joël of the FoS wrote:Possibly the greatest RL research document ever made.

Joël

That's very high praise, thank you.

Always been curious about Ratik's killer as well. I've see the theory that he is his own killer somehow gone back in time only to start an endless cycle of killing himself though that posses the question who originally killed him?

I can also understand wanting to leave it vague for other's to invent their story but I come from the opposite side of the spectrum that there are too many possibilities to twiddle down to one. xD Currently trying to come up with what I want to do for possible 4 session game of ravenloft for the month of October and now that I have all the resources at my finger tips. (haha!) Kinda in a paralysis of just what I want to do. XD Ratik and Toben will forever be a mystery to me.

The Giamarga wrote:Is this the one with the crawling claw?

For the record, this is Dunkel Kralle, and yes, it's pretty awesome. I went through it as a player (one of my very few times not DMing in Ravenloft) once in a pbp, and it was really scary and fun. I'd love to use it, but have to wait until after the Requiem hits my campaign, otherwise it makes no sense.

I always remember the final line of that adventure...the mental picture it conjures up is simply delicious.

That was very Lovecraftian, indeed

Ryan Naylor wrote: However, vampyre revolution in Falkovnia in the later stages of the War of the Core would make perfect sense - all of Drakov's troops are out in the field, weakening Drakov's hold over Falkovnia enough that the vampyres sense weakness and rise up. Drakov then is forced to fight a war on two fronts, which causes him to lose the southern front, just when things were looking up for him (having crushed Borca, made Dementlieu fold in on itself and invaded Barovia to go toe to toe with Strahd). Not only is it logical, it ties in perfectly with his curse. "If only those damn vampyres hadn't risen up, I could have defeated Strahd, I know it! And betrayed by my own family as well... Next time, next time" [commence purging].

As a fan of not giving Drakov any victories, I wouldn't allow him to crush Borca... but Malocchio certainly could. Imagine the frustrating insult: the pincher-grasp attack is initiated, but while Malocchio's troops wipe the floor with the Borcan resistance (much of which was distracted by Drakov in the north) and march on Levkarest, Drakov is beset by the poisoning of supplies on the road to Sturben, a vampyre uprising behind the lines, and his brilliantly planned assault on Degravo to take down Ivan getting hijacked by some bored fey from the Shadow Rift who were delighted at the clusters of canned toys being sent their way. Borca falls, but Drakov's remaining troops limp in to join the Invidians, who have already secured victory. It's a beautifully twisted insult: even if his side wins, he can't actually claim the triumph for himself (note that this will probably sour him on the concept of "alliances" as a respectable tactic, treating it with the same scorn he gives to technology, magic, and espionage).

The above plays nicely into the protege parallel between Drakov and Malocchio compared to Mussolini and Hitler. Mussolini was supposed to be the mentor, but when WWII went into full swing, it was the Nazi army that marched on Paris, drove the Brits across the Channel, and secured a deal with Vichy... all after crushing Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, and Belgium. Meanwhile, Mussolini's forces crept in the backdoor at the last minute to camp out on the French Riviera after being unable to win any battle less lop-sided than throwing mustard gas at Ethiopians with spears.

The Giamarga wrote:Is this the one with the crawling claw? Do you have any idea if this was inspired by an old black and white movie? The monster and this adventure in particular always seem to remind me of a movie that i must have watched when very young. Recollection is very hazy but I do feel quite sure that such a movie exists.

Dunkel Kralle wasn't inspired by any one particular movie, but by the entire evil-severed-hand subgenre, which was a thing once upon a time. The specific movie you're thinking of might be The Crawling Hand.

Thanks guys. Yes Dunkel Kralle it was. The name is quite a give away for Germans.

It seems my google fu has increased or perhaps i did not really investigate this in the past. It was probably one of the movies from one of those lists that i remembered:
The Most Exciting Severed Hands Of All Time
Ten Horror Movies with Severed Hand
Top Ten Severed Hand Movies
(Yes it is almost a sub-genre)

Being black and white should narrow down the list. This is really exciting as it is a very old vague memory, i probably watched this while i was quite little.

Having looked at the trailer, I think I was thinking of The Beast with Five Fingers.