Café de Nuit

Yeah, sounds like WotC/Hasbro is mucking things up.

On the bright side, though, we'll still have all the work he's done for it so far.

Didn't he get divorced relatively recently? He used to be married to Sue Weinlein, whom I fondly recall as the realworld stand-in for Suris Enlien, Regent of the Birthright domain Medoere.

'Tis a shame - both are designers I respect and who have done good work for the gaming industry. Also a shame that WotC couldn't keep ahold of Monte Cook.

But I suspect he has an impressive enough resume that he'll have no difficulty finding work.

...So, time to invest in a few Pathfinder books, because D&D will be going DOWN!

Consulting with players for more than fifteen years now.

He cited trouble with the company, not fellow creators. So I think WotC wanted to get the game a different direction, not rule-wise but design-wise than he wanted. As in "We go for the masses and profit, not so much about quality. Suck it or go".
I hope I'm wrong, but my hopes about 5th edition dropped.

It's more likely problems with the uncaring management that does not get the game and does not care for its fans. Upper WotC management really does seem like archetypal souless suits, un-creative people working for a creative company.
Check out some of the interviews CEO Greg Leeds has done with ICv2. He has no passion for the game.

There's probably endless hurdles, managing when they want the game out, how they want it released, dealing with continual requests from above, and the like.

alhoon wrote:He cited trouble with the company, not fellow creators.

Not exactly. While he said he had "differences" with the company, the only folks he specifically said were not involved were "my fellow designers, Rob Schwalb and Bruce Cordell." There's a whole lot of vagueness and possibility in between. And if Schwalb, Cordell, and some of the other folks working on D&D Next remain involved in the project, I'll likely remain interested in seeing what they come up with. Cordell, for instance, can do no wrong in my book and is the God of D&D Psionics.

Ken of Ghastria wrote:

alhoon wrote:He cited trouble with the company, not fellow creators.

Not exactly. While he said he had "differences" with the company, the only folks he specifically said were not involved were "my fellow designers, Rob Schwalb and Bruce Cordell." There's a whole lot of vagueness and possibility in between. And if Schwalb, Cordell, and some of the other folks working on D&D Next remain involved in the project, I'll likely remain interested in seeing what they come up with. Cordell, for instance, can do no wrong in my book and is the God of D&D Psionics.

He did a second blog where he name dropped the rest of the Dev team, specifically because of speculation after he only mentioned the two by name.

As bad as this may seem, there could be some potential benefits. Early descriptions of the forthcoming 5th Edition project have been confusing at best. The loss of a star developer may allow the remaining team to create a more unified vision for the upcoming game.

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:Legend of the Five Rings: Consulting with players for more than fifteen years now.

Excellent! It's good to let people know there are other choices out there - and while DnD has nice guidance paths for quick or introductory play, there are other systems that allow a LOT more structured support for user customization.

I'll add to your Lo5R and with a plug for GURPS: Encouraging GMs and players to tailor their own systems, since 1988.



Although for real hard-core "write your own rules, redefine your whole game" flexibility, I'd also strongly recommend TriStat dX.



It's out of print now but I have the free PDF which they encourage players to distribute.

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... /20120425a

Mike Meals mentions he was supprised Monte Cook left D&D and speaks about a Playtest at 24th of May.

Jester of the FoS wrote:Check out some of the interviews CEO Greg Leeds has done with ICv2. He has no passion for the game.

I just googled "Greg Leeds ICv2" and read the two part interview from 2008. I didn't get that feeling at all. I mean, yeah, he's a business guy, and it shows, and he's talking business, where the business happens to be games. But he knows a lot more details about the products than I'd expect a CEO to know. It's kinda dry business-speak, but he's a CEO. That's the nature of the beast. Or is it another interview you meant?

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Jester of the FoS wrote:Check out some of the interviews CEO Greg Leeds has done with ICv2. He has no passion for the game.

I just googled "Greg Leeds ICv2" and read the two part interview from 2008. I didn't get that feeling at all. I mean, yeah, he's a business guy, and it shows, and he's talking business, where the business happens to be games. But he knows a lot more details about the products than I'd expect a CEO to know. It's kinda dry business-speak, but he's a CEO. That's the nature of the beast. Or is it another interview you meant?

It read very much like straight marketing hype, with the standard, tired buisness terms. "Evolution" and "strong sales" and many others that don't really mean much. He sticks to his talking points and doesn't say much else of note. When asked something unexpected he replies with the most bland uninformative answers possible.
He paints this very rosy, optimistic picture despite numerous store closures and Paizo hurting D&D sales, emphasising how well D&D was doing at a time when they would just have been gearing up for 5th edition. So, clearly, 4th Edition and D&D was NOT doing well.

He didn't vary far from his talking points. It was a real fluffy interview, very soft gloves, and a whole lot of advertising. And he wasn't alone, there was a WotC marketing guy right there who even answered a question.

My favourite part is when he talks about how stable D&D and the staff was, after four years of lay-offs (including the brand manager) and three-months before laying off a couple more long term staff including someone who'd been with D&D since 1st Edition. No, D&D does not had the same amount of staff, you let a twenty of them go, almost 10% of the company.

Jester of the FoS wrote:He paints this very rosy, optimistic picture despite numerous store closures and Paizo hurting D&D sales, emphasising how well D&D was doing at a time when they would just have been gearing up for 5th edition. So, clearly, 4th Edition and D&D was NOT doing well.

I dunno, maybe I'm biased, because I work for a very large corporation and I'm used to such speak from CEO's. But I have NEVER heard a CEO admit stuff like "product X is not doing well" unless they'd already cancelled it.

My favourite part is when he talks about how stable D&D and the staff was, after four years of lay-offs (including the brand manager) and three-months before laying off a couple more long term staff including someone who'd been with D&D since 1st Edition. No, D&D does not had the same amount of staff, you let a twenty of them go, almost 10% of the company.

Yeah, that's somewhat disingenuous. But I still don't read it as "no passion for the game." He might have the passion, he might not. But I guarantee he doesn't have passion for every product Hasbro sells. Nor would I expect him to. If he loves D&D, Elefun, My Little Pony, Battleship, Dora, Lite-Brite, and Risk all equally, he's an odd person indeed. But as CEO he should be hyping all of them, all the time.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Jester of the FoS wrote:He paints this very rosy, optimistic picture despite numerous store closures and Paizo hurting D&D sales, emphasising how well D&D was doing at a time when they would just have been gearing up for 5th edition. So, clearly, 4th Edition and D&D was NOT doing well.

I dunno, maybe I'm biased, because I work for a very large corporation and I'm used to such speak from CEO's. But I have NEVER heard a CEO admit stuff like "product X is not doing well" unless they'd already cancelled it.

It's one thing to say a product is doing poorly, it's another to say it's doing well when it's not. He could have remained silent or phrased it differently. Especially when there's already rumours sales are not strong.
It means he's the type of CEO who will lie blatantly about the health of the game. This doesn't engender trust.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

My favourite part is when he talks about how stable D&D and the staff was, after four years of lay-offs (including the brand manager) and three-months before laying off a couple more long term staff including someone who'd been with D&D since 1st Edition. No, D&D does not had the same amount of staff, you let a twenty of them go, almost 10% of the company.

Yeah, that's somewhat disingenuous. But I still don't read it as "no passion for the game." He might have the passion, he might not. But I guarantee he doesn't have passion for every product Hasbro sells. Nor would I expect him to. If he loves D&D, Elefun, My Little Pony, Battleship, Dora, Lite-Brite, and Risk all equally, he's an odd person indeed. But as CEO he should be hyping all of them, all the time.

But he's not the CEO of Hasbro, he's the CEO of WotC which is just an affliate of Hasbro. Hasbro has it's own toys and products to manage. He's the CEO of WotC and all of the related games, but when you google his name you see reference after reference associate with MtG. D&D seems secondary. Which is the thing, Magic seems to be his baby. D&D just seems like the brand his former boss aquired and now he has to manage.