Café de Nuit

Speedwagon wrote:Horrors of the Orient/The East can mean a lot of things, given how wide the Western perception of 'the East' was and still arguably is. The usual interpretation would be something East Asian themed (so China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Domains inspired by those places like I'Cath, Rokushima Taiyō and Dat Cua Nhen, or even Sanzhou, Xi'anlin, Chonyo Egurimja, Chamhok Mun and Tong Dao).
But there's tons of cool stuff that can be inspired by Southeast Asia or the broader Indian Subcontinent (Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar/Burma, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal & Bhutan) and that's somewhat been done by other Ravenloft fans (Kungthrom Sound and Igid Rabi-I come to mind).

But more than just those areas, I think what would be really original and not done before would be Domains or horror themes and monsters inspired by or based on Central Asia. With the Silk Road passing through the region and connecting the East to the West, a lot of shit went down there that isn't really acknowledged these days. The various factions and ethnicities within the region, like the Cumans, the Tatars, the Mongols, the Huns, the Magyars and so on, all of them would make for good reference material and inspiration to make new and interesting Domains of Dread. Well for me at least, though I'm not opposed to new write-ups on old favorites or even expansions into newer interpretations like 5e I'Cath (which I really like) or 5e Kalakeri (which I also really like).

tomokaicho wrote:

Speedwagon wrote:Horrors of the Orient/The East can mean a lot of things, given how wide the Western perception of 'the East' was and still arguably is. The usual interpretation would be something East Asian themed (so China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Domains inspired by those places like I'Cath, Rokushima Taiyō and Dat Cua Nhen, or even Sanzhou, Xi'anlin, Chonyo Egurimja, Chamhok Mun and Tong Dao).
But there's tons of cool stuff that can be inspired by Southeast Asia or the broader Indian Subcontinent (Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar/Burma, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal & Bhutan) and that's somewhat been done by other Ravenloft fans (Kungthrom Sound and Igid Rabi-I come to mind).

But more than just those areas, I think what would be really original and not done before would be Domains or horror themes and monsters inspired by or based on Central Asia. With the Silk Road passing through the region and connecting the East to the West, a lot of shit went down there that isn't really acknowledged these days. The various factions and ethnicities within the region, like the Cumans, the Tatars, the Mongols, the Huns, the Magyars and so on, all of them would make for good reference material and inspiration to make new and interesting Domains of Dread. Well for me at least, though I'm not opposed to new write-ups on old favorites or even expansions into newer interpretations like 5e I'Cath (which I really like) or 5e Kalakeri (which I also really like).

All great ideas. I think submissions along these lines are limited by the fact that most people that are submitting to QtR do not have a lot of knowledge about these places. Central Asia, for example, is a total blank for me. I think the Tergs that invaded Barovia might be Turks, but also possibly Huns or Magyars.

Five wrote:

tomokaicho wrote:

Speedwagon wrote:Horrors of the Orient/The East can mean a lot of things, given how wide the Western perception of 'the East' was and still arguably is. The usual interpretation would be something East Asian themed (so China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Domains inspired by those places like I'Cath, Rokushima Taiyō and Dat Cua Nhen, or even Sanzhou, Xi'anlin, Chonyo Egurimja, Chamhok Mun and Tong Dao).
But there's tons of cool stuff that can be inspired by Southeast Asia or the broader Indian Subcontinent (Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar/Burma, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal & Bhutan) and that's somewhat been done by other Ravenloft fans (Kungthrom Sound and Igid Rabi-I come to mind).

But more than just those areas, I think what would be really original and not done before would be Domains or horror themes and monsters inspired by or based on Central Asia. With the Silk Road passing through the region and connecting the East to the West, a lot of shit went down there that isn't really acknowledged these days. The various factions and ethnicities within the region, like the Cumans, the Tatars, the Mongols, the Huns, the Magyars and so on, all of them would make for good reference material and inspiration to make new and interesting Domains of Dread. Well for me at least, though I'm not opposed to new write-ups on old favorites or even expansions into newer interpretations like 5e I'Cath (which I really like) or 5e Kalakeri (which I also really like).

All great ideas. I think submissions along these lines are limited by the fact that most people that are submitting to QtR do not have a lot of knowledge about these places. Central Asia, for example, is a total blank for me. I think the Tergs that invaded Barovia might be Turks, but also possibly Huns or Magyars.

Or they could be Tergs. Meaning one isn't bound to real world culture, peoples, etc and the pitfalls that internet freaks and SJWs are currently standing guard over.

Loosely basing fantasy material off of real world models doesn't have to be an out of bounds limit of the imagination, or, based off of personal knowledge (or knowledge filtered through those wakeboarding the current social unrest for financial gain) . Embrace it. "Inspired by"; key words in the design. It's all going to be, or should be, draped in fantasy cloth anyway so the distortion is all that matters really. Use stereotypes; that's what makes it relatable (one cannot talk generally about a country or a people without stereotyping; it's impossible). Let others do the broadstroking when it comes to the moral and ethical. The characters you provide are individuals, not hardlined racial or cultural traits or features (are all Americans the same as their political leaders? Are they all like-minded when it comes to its policies? Of course not. So why write your piece with such foolish limitations?).

You don't need knowledge to create. You need imagination. And not all of us here needs a real world reference to be able to have fun in Ravenloft. Those that need to know what culture such and such a domain is based on, or who so and so a dark lord is based on...they're the ones with limited imaginations. Don't bind yourself to that as your default audience. Drawing conclusions and connecting blatantly placed dots for the fun of it or for soft debate is not what I am talking about here, so to those looking to weaponise my words and hit themselves with them before screaming "assault!", relax man. This ain't to you. To those that can't (or don't want to) differentiate between fantasy and reality: (grandma rule).

Whatever it is you do, and however it is you get there, it's all good man. Just imagine and write.

And if you're really that worried about offending others then spend more time distorting your real world base model. Mind the footprints a bit. If you cut and paste then you're asking for fools' attention...

KingCorn wrote:Wonder what next years theme will be. We've had Horrors of the Desert and the Sea, so perhaps we focus on Sri Raja and other eastern domains with Horrors of the Orient/East.

Rock wrote:How about famous restaurants of the Demiplane?

Speedwagon wrote:Horrors of the Orient/The East can mean a lot of things, given how wide the Western perception of 'the East' was and still arguably is. The usual interpretation would be something East Asian themed (so China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Domains inspired by those places like I'Cath, Rokushima Taiyō and Dat Cua Nhen, or even Sanzhou, Xi'anlin, Chonyo Egurimja, Chamhok Mun and Tong Dao).
But there's tons of cool stuff that can be inspired by Southeast Asia or the broader Indian Subcontinent (Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar/Burma, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal & Bhutan) and that's somewhat been done by other Ravenloft fans (Kungthrom Sound and Igid Rabi-I come to mind).

But more than just those areas, I think what would be really original and not done before would be Domains or horror themes and monsters inspired by or based on Central Asia. With the Silk Road passing through the region and connecting the East to the West, a lot of shit went down there that isn't really acknowledged these days. The various factions and ethnicities within the region, like the Cumans, the Tatars, the Mongols, the Huns, the Magyars and so on, all of them would make for good reference material and inspiration to make new and interesting Domains of Dread. Well for me at least, though I'm not opposed to new write-ups on old favorites or even expansions into newer interpretations like 5e I'Cath (which I really like) or 5e Kalakeri (which I also really like).

Five wrote:Requests for QtR 2-9...hmm

I'd like to see this community's response dedicated to de-D&Ding Ravenloft. A divorce if you will. Of sorts.

What would Ravenloft be if we rewrote the setting into a game that better aligns itself with its (bulk) gothic literature roots? Ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. Mundane versus the Supernatural.

Base our protagonists, the PCs, around Domains of Dread's Table 39: Ability Score Descriptions:

0 = Not applicable to the character
1 = So low as to be almost unmeasurable
2 = Below human minimum
3 = Functional human minimum
4 = Impaired in a major fashion
5 = Impaired in a minor fashion
6 = Well below human average
7 = Below human average
8 = Low human average
9 = Human average
10 = Human average
11 = High human average
12 = Above human average
13 = Well above human average
14 = Among the best in the village
15 = Among the best in the city
16 = Among the best in the region
17 = Among the best in the nation
18 = Among the best in the world
19 = Beyond the limits of normal man
20 = Beyond the limits of heroic man
21 = Surpassing superhuman levels
22 = The equal of the demigods
23 = The equal of the lesser gods
24 = The equal of the gods
25 = The equal of the greater gods

Cut out scores 0 to 3, and 16 to 25. Dark Sun 1-upped ability scores to represent the adaptation to a world gone primal, here we'll do the opposite. 1-down, to represent the inability to compete with a world dominated by the supernatural.

Chop classes and focus on backgrounds. Skills. Knowledge. Professions. Sure, some dandy nobles can go about the countryside carte blanche-like, but for the most part the PCs are wage slaves. Joe and Jane Doe. Struggling in a world that just won't keep its heat. Noir. Gothic noir. Pulp Gothic. You get the idea.

Domains are prisons of emotions. The Dark Lords are the embodiment of those emotions. Give them a primary and maybe a secondary that just bleeds out in waves that sometimes infects the population that lays beneath their boot heels. Mood swings that poison. Throw them off the tower of stone and from their broken bodies the trapped emotion(s) dissipate to form elsewhere; doing good for your neighbours sometimes can double as an asshole move for or against strangers. Cest la vie man. Now the domain is normal again. You and yours can breathe again. You're all safe. Until another emotion gets blown in on the wind and begins its downpour on you and yours.

Hit points are hit points, and are still the life force of our protagonists. But mental points, or sanity points are just as important, if not more. Armor Class, Mental Armor Class. Its what keeps the hero going. That picture of their betrothed, that letter that they always have close at hand? It heals damage to the mind and soul. Lose that and the vortex begins to wreak havoc on both like a swirling, ravenous vulture at your face. And a kiss? That trumps ALL. Holy water and blessed food might bring back some feeling in your battered body, but a kiss from your loved one is the ultimate in heal spells.

Anyway, that's what I'd like to see in the next QtR (not the above specifically. That's just lean-to/loose sample). A Netbook rewrite of Ravenloft, done by this community. Fans for fans. A full campaign setting rulebook, with "articles of flavour" (fiction etc that gels the premise).

Take the Shadowfell out of Ravenloft (and don't you even think about scraping it into the dog's bowl!), and make Ravenloft stand on its own two feet again. Prop it up in the least. All I see is fantasy in it now. A heavy lean of it, and for some time now. Since 3E. Time to Stephen Fabian the 3E worldbuild of Ravenloft...

Or don't.

I like QtR as they are.

Heh

Pizza wrote:

Five wrote:Requests for QtR 2-9...hmm

I'd like to see this community's response dedicated to de-D&Ding Ravenloft. A divorce if you will. Of sorts.

What would Ravenloft be if we rewrote the setting into a game that better aligns itself with its (bulk) gothic literature roots? Ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. Mundane versus the Supernatural.

Base our protagonists, the PCs, around Domains of Dread's Table 39: Ability Score Descriptions:

0 = Not applicable to the character
1 = So low as to be almost unmeasurable
2 = Below human minimum
3 = Functional human minimum
4 = Impaired in a major fashion
5 = Impaired in a minor fashion
6 = Well below human average
7 = Below human average
8 = Low human average
9 = Human average
10 = Human average
11 = High human average
12 = Above human average
13 = Well above human average
14 = Among the best in the village
15 = Among the best in the city
16 = Among the best in the region
17 = Among the best in the nation
18 = Among the best in the world
19 = Beyond the limits of normal man
20 = Beyond the limits of heroic man
21 = Surpassing superhuman levels
22 = The equal of the demigods
23 = The equal of the lesser gods
24 = The equal of the gods
25 = The equal of the greater gods

Cut out scores 0 to 3, and 16 to 25. Dark Sun 1-upped ability scores to represent the adaptation to a world gone primal, here we'll do the opposite. 1-down, to represent the inability to compete with a world dominated by the supernatural.

Chop classes and focus on backgrounds. Skills. Knowledge. Professions. Sure, some dandy nobles can go about the countryside carte blanche-like, but for the most part the PCs are wage slaves. Joe and Jane Doe. Struggling in a world that just won't keep its heat. Noir. Gothic noir. Pulp Gothic. You get the idea.

Domains are prisons of emotions. The Dark Lords are the embodiment of those emotions. Give them a primary and maybe a secondary that just bleeds out in waves that sometimes infects the population that lays beneath their boot heels. Mood swings that poison. Throw them off the tower of stone and from their broken bodies the trapped emotion(s) dissipate to form elsewhere; doing good for your neighbours sometimes can double as an asshole move for or against strangers. Cest la vie man. Now the domain is normal again. You and yours can breathe again. You're all safe. Until another emotion gets blown in on the wind and begins its downpour on you and yours.

Hit points are hit points, and are still the life force of our protagonists. But mental points, or sanity points are just as important, if not more. Armor Class, Mental Armor Class. Its what keeps the hero going. That picture of their betrothed, that letter that they always have close at hand? It heals damage to the mind and soul. Lose that and the vortex begins to wreak havoc on both like a swirling, ravenous vulture at your face. And a kiss? That trumps ALL. Holy water and blessed food might bring back some feeling in your battered body, but a kiss from your loved one is the ultimate in heal spells.

Anyway, that's what I'd like to see in the next QtR (not the above specifically. That's just lean-to/loose sample). A Netbook rewrite of Ravenloft, done by this community. Fans for fans. A full campaign setting rulebook, with "articles of flavour" (fiction etc that gels the premise).

Take the Shadowfell out of Ravenloft (and don't you even think about scraping it into the dog's bowl!), and make Ravenloft stand on its own two feet again. Prop it up in the least. All I see is fantasy in it now. A heavy lean of it, and for some time now. Since 3E. Time to Stephen Fabian the 3E worldbuild of Ravenloft...

Or don't.

I like QtR as they are.

Heh

This seems like a major undertaking. I mean a level 1 PC would be somewhere around 12 or 13. This goes back to the idea that probably no one in human history has been more than a level 4 fighter, and only a handful of people were probably ever that. You really need to decrease the number and power of the enemies to move the PC level down as far as you want.

Five wrote:

Pizza wrote:

Five wrote:Requests for QtR 2-9...hmm

I'd like to see this community's response dedicated to de-D&Ding Ravenloft. A divorce if you will. Of sorts.

What would Ravenloft be if we rewrote the setting into a game that better aligns itself with its (bulk) gothic literature roots? Ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. Mundane versus the Supernatural.

Base our protagonists, the PCs, around Domains of Dread's Table 39: Ability Score Descriptions:

0 = Not applicable to the character
1 = So low as to be almost unmeasurable
2 = Below human minimum
3 = Functional human minimum
4 = Impaired in a major fashion
5 = Impaired in a minor fashion
6 = Well below human average
7 = Below human average
8 = Low human average
9 = Human average
10 = Human average
11 = High human average
12 = Above human average
13 = Well above human average
14 = Among the best in the village
15 = Among the best in the city
16 = Among the best in the region
17 = Among the best in the nation
18 = Among the best in the world
19 = Beyond the limits of normal man
20 = Beyond the limits of heroic man
21 = Surpassing superhuman levels
22 = The equal of the demigods
23 = The equal of the lesser gods
24 = The equal of the gods
25 = The equal of the greater gods

Cut out scores 0 to 3, and 16 to 25. Dark Sun 1-upped ability scores to represent the adaptation to a world gone primal, here we'll do the opposite. 1-down, to represent the inability to compete with a world dominated by the supernatural.

Chop classes and focus on backgrounds. Skills. Knowledge. Professions. Sure, some dandy nobles can go about the countryside carte blanche-like, but for the most part the PCs are wage slaves. Joe and Jane Doe. Struggling in a world that just won't keep its heat. Noir. Gothic noir. Pulp Gothic. You get the idea.

Domains are prisons of emotions. The Dark Lords are the embodiment of those emotions. Give them a primary and maybe a secondary that just bleeds out in waves that sometimes infects the population that lays beneath their boot heels. Mood swings that poison. Throw them off the tower of stone and from their broken bodies the trapped emotion(s) dissipate to form elsewhere; doing good for your neighbours sometimes can double as an asshole move for or against strangers. Cest la vie man. Now the domain is normal again. You and yours can breathe again. You're all safe. Until another emotion gets blown in on the wind and begins its downpour on you and yours.

Hit points are hit points, and are still the life force of our protagonists. But mental points, or sanity points are just as important, if not more. Armor Class, Mental Armor Class. Its what keeps the hero going. That picture of their betrothed, that letter that they always have close at hand? It heals damage to the mind and soul. Lose that and the vortex begins to wreak havoc on both like a swirling, ravenous vulture at your face. And a kiss? That trumps ALL. Holy water and blessed food might bring back some feeling in your battered body, but a kiss from your loved one is the ultimate in heal spells.

Anyway, that's what I'd like to see in the next QtR (not the above specifically. That's just lean-to/loose sample). A Netbook rewrite of Ravenloft, done by this community. Fans for fans. A full campaign setting rulebook, with "articles of flavour" (fiction etc that gels the premise).

Take the Shadowfell out of Ravenloft (and don't you even think about scraping it into the dog's bowl!), and make Ravenloft stand on its own two feet again. Prop it up in the least. All I see is fantasy in it now. A heavy lean of it, and for some time now. Since 3E. Time to Stephen Fabian the 3E worldbuild of Ravenloft...

Or don't.

I like QtR as they are.

Heh

This seems like a major undertaking. I mean a level 1 PC would be somewhere around 12 or 13. This goes back to the idea that probably no one in human history has been more than a level 4 fighter, and only a handful of people were probably ever that. You really need to decrease the number and power of the enemies to move the PC level down as far as you want.

That's exactly the point. It's showing respect to the monsters specifically, to horror in general, and it's a great spotlight on the table, through PC challenge and sense of accomplishment for players.

Who in D&D fears a single vampire or werewolf?Conceptually they are terrifying monstrosities. But in the game they are "encounters" to be overcome on the way to something bigger, when they should be to surviving PCs the equivalent to planting a frigging flag on the moon! Hell, Ravenloft has a vampire around every corner, and a cult clan of religious werewolves. Such revelations should be sanity-breaking even for "adventurers", not just today's sandwich. Especially if you in-game such a sentiment in regards to NPCs; to have a handful of individuals absolutely immune to things that horrify society, and/or are that unifyingly disconnected is just shitty wordbuilding, IMO. Nothing is impossible to pull off, but generally-speaking it's, I dunno, lazy? I'll go with that even though it don't quite fit my brain.

Short of it, I feel icreasing numbers of these things is the same as pissing down on their horror aspects. And when you do that you piss on the PCs, and the players

That's some surface thoughts anyway. Not sure if there's a point in going deeper.

One other thing that's related, I'd like to see in all future Ravenloft products not just tips on running horror, but the monsters within its mists as well. Maximise horror by utilising its representations of. VR guides did it well enough in 2E, but as with everything they would need to be updated, reinterpreted, and expanded upon by of age developers.

Toning down PCs here would be part of that structure's base. Min/max for story, which is by setting definition horror.

Drop Superman or Batman into the novel Dracula and you'd end up with...Ravenloft?

Like I say though, that's just me.

Pizza wrote:
I hope I didn’t come across as downing the idea or request. That was not my intention.

tomokaicho wrote:

Five wrote:Requests for QtR 2-9...hmm

I'd like to see this community's response dedicated to de-D&Ding Ravenloft. A divorce if you will. Of sorts.

What would Ravenloft be if we rewrote the setting into a game that better aligns itself with its (bulk) gothic literature roots? Ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. Mundane versus the Supernatural.

What you are describing sounds a lot like the mechanics in Masque of the Red Death (D20). Polyhedron Magazine had stuff along these lines as well. You could use that as your baseline, perhaps throwing in some D20 Modern. D20 Modern also does away with traditional alignments, with 'allegiances' taking the place of alignment. Since alignment is undetectable on the moral axis, it probably makes more sense.

I think what you describe is a worthy project but I am more inclined to bring Ravenloft properly into 3.5e with 3.5e mechanics that actually work. Because the 3.5e print run is over, all this requires is a once over and 3.5e Ravenloft will be in place thereafter.

Five wrote:Requests for QtR 2-9...hmm

I'd like to see this community's response dedicated to de-D&Ding Ravenloft. A divorce if you will. Of sorts.

What would Ravenloft be if we rewrote the setting into a game that better aligns itself with its (bulk) gothic literature roots? Ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. Mundane versus the Supernatural.

Chop classes and focus on backgrounds. Skills. Knowledge. Professions. Sure, some dandy nobles can go about the countryside carte blanche-like, but for the most part the PCs are wage slaves. Joe and Jane Doe. Struggling in a world that just won't keep its heat. Noir. Gothic noir. Pulp Gothic. You get the idea.

Domains are prisons of emotions. The Dark Lords are the embodiment of those emotions. Give them a primary and maybe a secondary that just bleeds out in waves that sometimes infects the population that lays beneath their boot heels. Mood swings that poison. Throw them off the tower of stone and from their broken bodies the trapped emotion(s) dissipate to form elsewhere; doing good for your neighbours sometimes can double as an asshole move for or against strangers. Cest la vie man. Now the domain is normal again. You and yours can breathe again. You're all safe. Until another emotion gets blown in on the wind and begins its downpour on you and yours.

Hit points are hit points, and are still the life force of our protagonists. But mental points, or sanity points are just as important, if not more. Armor Class, Mental Armor Class. Its what keeps the hero going. That picture of their betrothed, that letter that they always have close at hand? It heals damage to the mind and soul. Lose that and the vortex begins to wreak havoc on both like a swirling, ravenous vulture at your face. And a kiss? That trumps ALL. Holy water and blessed food might bring back some feeling in your battered body, but a kiss from your loved one is the ultimate in heal spells.

Anyway, that's what I'd like to see in the next QtR (not the above specifically. That's just lean-to/loose sample). A Netbook rewrite of Ravenloft, done by this community. Fans for fans. A full campaign setting rulebook, with "articles of flavour" (fiction etc that gels the premise).

Take the Shadowfell out of Ravenloft (and don't you even think about scraping it into the dog's bowl!), and make Ravenloft stand on its own two feet again. Prop it up in the least. All I see is fantasy in it now. A heavy lean of it, and for some time now. Since 3E. Time to Stephen Fabian the 3E worldbuild of Ravenloft...

Or don't.

I like QtR as they are.

Heh

tomokaicho wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:34 am Request: A 3.5e adaption of Iron & Blood: Warriors of Ravenloft, the video game. Basically Strahd and Soth send assassins at each other.