Dungeon Master Ethic's

[Le Noir Faineant]

Will need some time to recover from this...

[tec-goblin]

I'd say in general, that good/evil/neutral alignment should only affect the way characters fullfill their quests. Anything on the sideway - like raping a female party member - should be strictly out of the question.

I don't want to go into detail, but really, the idea of such a 20-whatsoever usually-timid-still-a-virgin jerk indulging his perverted sexual fantasies into my gaming group is more than I would tolerate.

Really, and I am not a violent person - the first time one shows up with THAT attitude, I'd beat him until he doesn't stand up any more, just to show him what true fear is.

I mean, it's really disgusting how deep some idiots sink!

No, I disagree: if you let a PC who would rape people in your game, raping party members is allowable.
The answer, of course, is not letting so evil PCs around. They tend to behave like jerks - I've done it for a short break, though, and it was disgustingly entertaining: for about 3 sessions, the players played some characters who would be later their opposition: they did horrible things (and I did more, becaused I roleplayed the Vashar NPCs, serving embryos for snacks) and they (particularly a female player) grew so disgusted that they really wanted to stop playing the opposition. So I switched them back to their normal characters, somewhat more determined than ever to stop the evil in the world (somewhat...).

So, to cut it short: if you allow very evil PCs, you should be aware that this PC WILL probably use this evilness against party members. So, IMC, there is a line of "too much evil" for PCs.

Not for NPCs, though
I have made NPCs rape PCs, even of female players, but I had the sensitivity to avoid describing the scene in detail. I have done it only once, and it served to increase the player's determination to "kill these bast*** when I return". It should be done very very carefully and only with a mature group - raping PCs of new players - particularly female ones is a bad idea. But evil acts like this WILL come up in a BoVD-inspired game. So be prepared.

[Manofevil]

Oh, you'll love hearing about the pants-sh***er then.

I *think* RPG.net's Open forum doesn't require membership, so this should be viewable by all:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=133489

195 $#%^^ING PAGES?!!! WHOCAN READ ALL THAT?!!! I"VE ONLY READ THE FIRST 20!!!

[Le Noir Faineant]

Evil PCs have a huge group -killer potential - so, I avoid to put them in my groups. However, a well-played evil mage or knight is always welcome. What I don't like is that such people tend to disrespect the DM (ME!) and the other gamers as well. Of course, it's only a game, but while I am sitting with my friends around a table, I'll tread them as my friends or take my leavings.

[Jennifer]

Hi all,
well, the creepiest gamer you played with was a can of worms I should not have opened. My goodness, I have been playing for ten years and I have never met anyone who could come close to this.

and I only came to page 70, there is 80 more pages of vileness to go. I am afraid I am hooked now.

Jennifer

[Steve Miller]

I NEVER allow evil PCs in my games. The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the story, not the villains.

I never tell others how to run their games, but I think that anyone who allows the sort of characters that most players portray when they are playing an evil character in a Ravenloft campaign isn't using the setting as it is intended.

[Coan]

I NEVER allow evil PCs in my games. The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the story, not the villains.

I never tell others how to run their games, but I think that anyone who allows the sort of characters that most players portray when they are playing an evil character in a Ravenloft campaign isn't using the setting as it is intended.

Ah but corrupting the PCs into evil is another matter -which to me is one of the main elements of Ravenloft.

[Le Noir Faineant]

I NEVER allow evil PCs in my games. The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the story, not the villains.

I never tell others how to run their games, but I think that anyone who allows the sort of characters that most players portray when they are playing an evil character in a Ravenloft campaign isn't using the setting as it is intended.

I have a company of evil dark knights rampaging Taladas for some time, but they know how to behave - they just play the game from the *other* point of view. I plan to introduce them into Ravenloft via the same portal Vlad is supposed to have taken... at least for a *weekend in hell* thing...

[Desertrising]

Stay away from the creepiest game thread on rpg.net. stay AWAY! I am telling you I am only on like page 200 and it's insane I tell you insane. However I am also very thankful for all the advice given on this site so far to my questions. It has helped me think things over and get a firmer position on some questions I had.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

I NEVER allow evil PCs in my games. The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the story, not the villains.

I never tell others how to run their games, but I think that anyone who allows the sort of characters that most players portray when they are playing an evil character in a Ravenloft campaign isn't using the setting as it is intended.

I wouldn't allow a party of Evil PCs, but one evil PC perhaps, if that player and I worked out the limits of their "evil."

One evil character in a group can add alot of dynamics, look at Raistlin.

[Le Noir Faineant]

I NEVER allow evil PCs in my games. The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the story, not the villains.

I never tell others how to run their games, but I think that anyone who allows the sort of characters that most players portray when they are playing an evil character in a Ravenloft campaign isn't using the setting as it is intended.

I wouldn't allow a party of Evil PCs, but one evil PC perhaps, if that player and I worked out the limits of their "evil."

One evil character in a group can add alot of dynamics, look at Raistlin.

Dito.

[alhoon]

I NEVER allow evil PCs in my games. The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the story, not the villains.

I never tell others how to run their games, but I think that anyone who allows the sort of characters that most players portray when they are playing an evil character in a Ravenloft campaign isn't using the setting as it is intended.

While I allow evil PCs in my games (even Ravenloft) these games have a tendecy to end quickly. In Ravenloft I use my rules for power checks that are much more strict than the rules proposed in the book.

A PC that murders someone for money will loose a powers check. And I don't wait until a character reaches the 6th stage to make him an NPC (or kill him) I warn players about this however.

On the other topic, I use torture, rape, castration, emotional damage sometimes but only with players that can tolerate that. It is a game, not an exercise in realism, so if I believe that a player can't take it, I don't do it.

However since I almost never kill PCs, I want them to have something to fear. So while my players aren't particularly afraid of being overwelmed in a battle, they are afraid of be caught prisoners.

[Manofevil]

Stay away from the creepiest game thread on rpg.net. stay AWAY! I am telling you I am only on like page 200 and it's insane I tell you insane. However I am also very thankful for all the advice given on this site so far to my questions. It has helped me think things over and get a firmer position on some questions I had.

AMEN, BROTHER!! AMEN!!!
I can't believe I've read 56 pages of this and intend to go back and read some MORE! I almost chucked when I read that one about the unwashed couples house on page 49. THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

[Dominique]

I should have listened to all the people saying not to read the creepy thread . . .

As far as the original topic of this thread goes: PC torture is probably okay if it's very vaguely described and/or you clear it with the player first, but I've never played in a game with PC torture so I can't be sure. PC rape, though, is never a safe proposition. Ever. I've personally seen things go downhill when a player thought that she was absolutely fine with an implied rape scene, and then the GM coincidentally and completely accidentally described something that echoed a real-life assault he didn't know she'd been through. If it had been "implied rape scene in a vacuum," I think she would have been okay. As it was, the inadverdent echoes of reality led to all kinds of nasty things, culminating in the GM breaking the game up out of guilt and her spending a year in therapy. It might be easy to point fingers and say "see, she shouldn't have agreed to it" or "see, she should have told the GM what not to do," but it apparently never crossed her mind that it would be a problem because she thought it was behind her. Nobody had any way of knowing that things would go wrong.

Sorry to be a downer, but it's an important point: PC rape is never, never, never a safe proposition. For NPC rape, on the other hand, imply your heart out; that can be creepy without cutting too close to the players.

[Ivana_Boritsi]

Interesting that in the case of PC rape - everyone talks about female PCs whose characters have have been raped.

From what I've read, some DMs are totally against it. Some allow it, but only carefully. I'm wondering if some of the folks here would be so hip to have their own male PC raped...ala Deliverance or Pulp Fiction?

Just a thought...

As far as evil PCs go...I've seen it done on rare occasions in an effective way. But usually the evil PCs that I've seen aren't really "evil" by D&D standards - certainly not by 3E standards.

Remember that Alignment definitions changed in 3E. Someone who is evil actually actively looks for ways of hurting people. Rastlin wouldn't be evil by today's 3rd Edition Alignment standards because he never goes out of his way to hurt people. His actions are more self-centered and self-serving...making him more neutral than anything else.

If you have a member of your party who actively seeks out others to harm...I don't see how such a character could last very long.