Domains of Dread in Manual of the Planes

[Charney]

take a gander.

Charney, would you have bought some Mystara, Dragonlance, or Birthright products, too? I seem to recall that not every setting came out with a product every month...

Actually, I had bought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium because I really loved the monsters within. I did want to look at Birthright books but I never got around to it before the setting was cancelled.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Birthright = Brilliant stuff. There are some free books over to download at Wizbro.
Be sure to check them, they are anticipating a lot of very modern concepts of fantasy gaming.

[Jester of the FoS]

Jester, the Pathfinder crunch -aka 3.75 - is one thing, but what do you think of their fluff ? Their adventures, Classic Monsters Revisited, the Golarion setting. I think that is the true strength of Pathfinder/Paizo.

Haven't read much of it. I'm more interested in the game system for my own myriad of worlds. I've never had problems creating fantasy worlds and my current homebrew has been evolved through 2-4e and been radically changed both times (for the better).
I'm sure it's a great fun world, and Paizo has a well-earned reputation for solid adventure paths. I'm sure it'd be a blast run a group through their various adventures or in their world, but I have no shortage of other worlds I have a longer allegiance to.

[Jester of the FoS]

What irks me is that's likely the complete text: all the information on Domains of Dread in the MotP.
We're really not being given alot to work with. WotC is really keeping the lines fluff-light, we never see the whole only small pieces and fragments. Yes, it keeps us coming back but I feel manipulated by the drip of information and carefully parcelled out revelations.
Unlike earlier editions they're really spacing out the basic, traditional core material. It'll be 2-3 years before we get everything that was in the combined three books of 3.5; and by the time we get all the classic monsters and dragons and such they'll be wrapping up 4e in favour of 5e...

I called it.
Manual of the Planes is now out and ALL the information related to Ravenloft/Domains of Dread was in that teasing preview.

That's IT. No sample domains, no darklords, no references to "the Core" or Strahd.
So what we have now is the Dragon article and the preview.

So Ravenloft, Planescape, and Spelljammer have all been folded into the Core. So while other settings will get three books (player's, DM's, and an adventure) the fans of those three settings have to make due with items and references scattered over multiple books and articles.
I'd honestly prefer to be ignored because then you could just do your own thing rather than wait for the next release that might change things again...

[DasSoviet]

Aye... just got this one today as well from DriveThru RPG... and really, it just confirms that Planescape, Spelljammer and Ravenloft have all been rolled into core Points of Light setting, while Mystara and Birthright are likely axed... however, they did confirm DarkSun, Greyhawk and Dragonlance:

"The World: The mortal plane of existence is the
natural world. This world may be Abeir-Toril, Athas,
Eberron, Krynn, Oerth, or a world of your own
devising. This plane also encompasses the space
between worlds."
--Manual of the Planes, pg 12

"The first of the planes is the world in which humans
and other mortals are born and have their existence.
The world often is known only by its name. For
example, the sages of Faerûn call their world Abeir-
Toril. Those who study such matters in the city of
Greyhawk know their world as Oerth, and the sages
of Ansalon know their world as Krynn. In reference
to the planes, the world is sometimes known as “the
mortal world,” “the material world,” “the natural
world,” or “the middle world,” to distinguish it from
the supernatural realms surrounding it."

--Manual of the Planes, pg 7

Now, I know some people who'll be really ecstatic about that, but it's just another reason for me not to jump ship... the best settings for 3rd edition were, in my humble opinion, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, and World of Warcraft... and two of those were Sword and Sorcery. I'll wait to see what comes... hopefully, a Domains of Dread sourcebook next October, or something along those lines, since they are not core settings but additions and adjuncts. But as it stands now, Golarion and Pathfinder are the only books I'm actually buying at the moment.

[Isabella]

I'd honestly prefer to be ignored because then you could just do your own thing rather than wait for the next release that might change things again...

What, you can't just do your own thing now?

[WolfKook]

I'd honestly prefer to be ignored because then you could just do your own thing rather than wait for the next release that might change things again...

What, you can't just do your own thing now?

Second that... That's pretty much what we're doing (RLR).

[DasSoviet]

Hmm... just noticed something... the Lady of Pain still exists... if I recall correctly, The Lady of Pain was, in theory, of the same cadre of beings as The Serpent and The Dark Powers... now, if the Lady still exists, will they keep her brethren around as well? Are the Dark Powers still responsible for the Domains of Dread in Shadowfel? *ponders*

[Scipion_Emilien]

Just to note that now with the DDI and virtual tabletop, for the first time in history that will give WoTC will have regular revenus without having to publish some books. Some have theorize that this will make the time between edition bigger. Of course it remain to be seen as how this will affect future business decision.

And now I want to point out that WoTC actually listen to the fan. Most of 4e design decision were complaint the fans make on the boards during the 3rd ed era. Heck, even FR reboot come from the fan that were saying that FR is too bloated. (This could be up to debate, but there were really a feeling among the fan that FR was indeed to bloated.)

The thing is, WoTC didn't listen to setting specific fan that form the minority of their following (and an already loyal one) but rather to the vast majority of casual players and homebrew DM. And then they made the bet that the loss will be balance by new blood, bet that seem to pay in the moment.

We can like it or dislike it, but from a business perspective, it's a smart move. They give to the mass what the mass want: a generic high fantasy medieval setting. Which then lead to the new "everything is core policy" to the point that the manual of the planes link each and every setting. Now every book have the potential to be use in the same game which make every book worth buying for their customer.

Now the crucial question, do I like it?

Like:

-Well, I like the mechanical balance of 4e. (Even if I have the feeling sometime it s lead to a fault)

-I like the way the system is streamlined and easy to play

-I like the feeling of having a common ground with every others D&D players (of 4e ed of course). I can walk in any game and know what to expect. Often with Ravenloft, I had the impression of being an elitist DM that scared people because Ravenloft is kniow for two thing in my environnement: deep character developpement or DM power-trip setting.

-I like the 2e ed mytho of having all those adventure take place in the same multiverse, it make for easy crossover between D&D groups.

Dislike:

-Less detailed setting and fluff, I like reading about setting for new ideas even if I werent planning playing or making a game in this setting.

-4e while seeming to work better for a general high fantasy setting, seem (in my opinion) to work clunkier when it came to the tailor it for others theme. Worst, they seem to be inclined to align every setting to the high fantasy theme. Like the shadowfell domain of dread that seem more a high fantasy mixed with dread than really the gothic horror into which Ravenloft have evolved.

Conclusion:

Im somewhere on the fence. I like the new streamlined and balanced system and the power and ritual system would theorically work better for Ravenloft. On the other hand I disliked the perceive alignement of all the setting on the average high fantasy topic.

Is it an issue of system mastery or of soul of the game? Im not able to pinpoint in the moment.

[Irving the Meek]

I've been playing with the 4e character builder beta; if you haven't picked up 4e for any reason, it's a good way to play with the system and get a feel for it. Much to my surprise, drawing up a character is much easier than you'd think - easier than 3e, really.

I think it's becoming clear, though, that if we want Ravenloft stuff, Open Grave is going to be the sourcebook of choice. I'm of the opinion that Ravenloft shouldn't be a Demiplane or any other odd animal in any event - should be a dark, evil-tainted "core" plane - but YMMV.

[Jester of the FoS]

I'd honestly prefer to be ignored because then you could just do your own thing rather than wait for the next release that might change things again...

What, you can't just do your own thing now?

Because if we want to make 4e compatible projects or the like we have to keep abreast of the changes and updates all the while knowing that Open Grave could have a new Fear/Horror system that negates everything we've done...

[Irving the Meek]

Heck, that was always a danger - We ran into that in 3.5 with Libris Mortis and Heroes of Horror. If our system works better, we use it. Otherwise, we use WotC's. I doubt that Ravenloft Reanimated will be anywhere near done by the time Open Grave hits the shelves, anyway...

[Gnarfflinger]

If anything, I think RLR is going to start with the fluff. If WotC drags their heels in providing us the crunch we desire, we'll do for ourselves--[shameless plug] which Jester has already done with his Ravenloft 4e Pamphlet [/shameless plug]!