Café de Nuit

I seem to recall Earl Grey (the actual earl, not the tea named after him) was impotent... or at least infertile. And he tried many different cures to allow him to father a child with his wife. At the time, electricity was poorly understood and was considered to be the spark of life ("Götters Lebenfunken"?) and one such method was to impregnate her while on a bed with a low-voltage electric current passing through it.

As somebody who's had a 120V electric shock himself, I can imagine it might have been very uncomfortable.

It's the 'scientific' term that really confuses me here. John Polidori was a doctor, so he might be considered scientific too, and he would certainly be considered instrumental in the genesis of Frankenstein, as well as Lord Byron.

Ail wrote:It's the 'scientific' term that really confuses me here. John Polidori was a doctor, so he might be considered scientific too, and he would certainly be considered instrumental in the genesis of Frankenstein, as well as Lord Byron.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering too . . .

. . . order99, any hints??

I was thinking of Luigi Galvani and Conrad Dippel , but any of the above posts would also qualify-Mary Shelley was surrounded by science! Darwin, Percy Shelley and Polidori all qualify..thanks for Earl Grey, didn't know that one!

Mary Shelly was a follower of Galvani's experiments with recently deceased tissue (the famous Frog's Legs experiment) and his theory of Electricity as a 'fluid' that could restore the functions of the deceased once studies had been advanced far enough. Galvani's theories did not take cellular decay into account of course, but proved useful nevertheless...

Conrad August Dippel was born in Schloss Frankenstein (a minor noble house long faded) and often signed his name as 'Frankenstein' although he was not related to the owners of the castle. Dippel was a doctor, theologian and confidence man by turns and is credited with the discovery of Prussic Acid. One of his more lucrative (and grisly) products sold under the name Dippel's Oil-reputed to extend life and health, it was made from rendered human fat and ground human bone...given the source, Dippel had probably created a very effective vitamin/mineral supplement that actually met it's claims, but even so... Conrad enjoyed remarkable health and vigor until his late eighties, then was found suddenly dead one morning with blue foam oozing from his mouth and nose. It is possible he was poisoned by a rival-equally likely, he may have done it himself trying out his latest 'Youth Elixer'.

It is believed that Shelley heard the history of Dippel while staying near the Schloss on 'honeymoon' with the still married Percy Shelley(his current wife committed suicide shortly thereafter). Dippel was quite famous in the region, having multiple degrees, the ear of several barons and counts, legitimate fame as the discoverer of Prussic Acid and having been dead for less than a century.

As for the bonus point: Victor idolized the same sources as his namesake Conrad "Frankenstein"- Cornelius Agrippa and Paracelsus.

order99 wrote:I was thinking of Luigi Galvani and Conrad Dippel , but any of the above posts would also qualify-Mary Shelley was surrounded by science! Darwin, Percy Shelley and Polidori all qualify..thanks for Earl Grey, didn't know that one!

Mary Shelly was a follower of Galvani's experiments with recently deceased tissue (the famous Frog's Legs experiment) and his theory of Electricity as a 'fluid' that could restore the functions of the deceased once studies had been advanced far enough. Galvani's theories did not take cellular decay into account of course, but proved useful nevertheless...

Conrad August Dippel was born in Schloss Frankenstein (a minor noble house long faded) and often signed his name as 'Frankenstein' although he was not related to the owners of the castle. Dippel was a doctor, theologian and confidence man by turns and is credited with the discovery of Prussic Acid. One of his more lucrative (and grisly) products sold under the name Dippel's Oil-reputed to extend life and health, it was made from rendered human fat and ground human bone...given the source, Dippel had probably created a very effective vitamin/mineral supplement that actually met it's claims, but even so... Conrad enjoyed remarkable health and vigor until his late eighties, then was found suddenly dead one morning with blue foam oozing from his mouth and nose. It is possible he was poisoned by a rival-equally likely, he may have done it himself trying out his latest 'Youth Elixer'.

It is believed that Shelley heard the history of Dippel while staying near the Schloss on 'honeymoon' with the still married Percy Shelley(his current wife committed suicide shortly thereafter). Dippel was quite famous in the region, having multiple degrees, the ear of several barons and counts, legitimate fame as the discoverer of Prussic Acid and having been dead for less than a century.

As for the bonus point: Victor idolized the same sources as his namesake Conrad "Frankenstein"- Cornelius Agrippa and Paracelsus.

Thank you, that was quite an extensive account!
I read Frankenstein many years ago, and watched in the past two months 5 or 6 of the movies made about it by Universal and Hammer. But from what I recall, Mary Shelley never tells us how Frankenstein brings the monster alive, which is to say that the famous 'creation by lightning' is an invention of the cinema. What I don't recall is how much she uses electricity in the novel. Could you enlighten us about it?

order99 wrote:I was thinking of Luigi Galvani and Conrad Dippel , but any of the above posts would also qualify-Mary Shelley was surrounded by science! Darwin, Percy Shelley and Polidori all qualify..thanks for Earl Grey, didn't know that one!

Mary Shelly was a follower of Galvani's experiments with recently deceased tissue (the famous Frog's Legs experiment) and his theory of Electricity as a 'fluid' that could restore the functions of the deceased once studies had been advanced far enough. Galvani's theories did not take cellular decay into account of course, but proved useful nevertheless...

Conrad August Dippel was born in Schloss Frankenstein (a minor noble house long faded) and often signed his name as 'Frankenstein' although he was not related to the owners of the castle. Dippel was a doctor, theologian and confidence man by turns and is credited with the discovery of Prussic Acid. One of his more lucrative (and grisly) products sold under the name Dippel's Oil-reputed to extend life and health, it was made from rendered human fat and ground human bone...given the source, Dippel had probably created a very effective vitamin/mineral supplement that actually met it's claims, but even so... Conrad enjoyed remarkable health and vigor until his late eighties, then was found suddenly dead one morning with blue foam oozing from his mouth and nose. It is possible he was poisoned by a rival-equally likely, he may have done it himself trying out his latest 'Youth Elixer'.

It is believed that Shelley heard the history of Dippel while staying near the Schloss on 'honeymoon' with the still married Percy Shelley(his current wife committed suicide shortly thereafter). Dippel was quite famous in the region, having multiple degrees, the ear of several barons and counts, legitimate fame as the discoverer of Prussic Acid and having been dead for less than a century.

As for the bonus point: Victor idolized the same sources as his namesake Conrad "Frankenstein"- Cornelius Agrippa and Paracelsus.

Agreed! order 99, this is awesome, thanks for this! Ali, do you want to pick the next question?

Ail wrote: But from what I recall, Mary Shelley never tells us how Frankenstein brings the monster alive, which is to say that the famous 'creation by lightning' is an invention of the cinema. What I don't recall is how much she uses electricity in the novel. Could you enlighten us about it?

Shelley doesn't actually get into the nuts and bolts of creation, handwaving it into several poetic paragraphs-all that is known is that bodies are required and that chemicals are involved. Given Victor's studies the process is definitely alchemical, but how the bodies are used is uncertain.

My own theory (given that the literary Creature,while hideous, is perfectly symmetrical and bears no scars)is that he rendered the bodies into essential mixtures and GREW the beast like one of Agrippa's Homunculi-if so, Victor's blasphemy would coincide once again with the historical Dippel's horrendous Oil...

Sorry for the Threadjack-next question?

order99 wrote:

Ail wrote: My own theory (given that the literary Creature,while hideous, is perfectly symmetrical and bears no scars)is that he rendered the bodies into essential mixtures and GREW the beast like one of Agrippa's Homunculi-if so, Victor's blasphemy would coincide once again with the historical Dippel's horrendous Oil...

... and would later be retaken in Bride of Frankenstein in the experiments of Doctor Pretorius.

Since Lady Soth offers to me, I'll pose the next question then, only because Frankenstein is so much one of my favourite stories and I don't want to lose this opportunity. I'll get a bit out of the model so far, though.


In Bride of Frankenstein (1935, Universal Studios), there is a remarkable scene where the Monster finds a blind hermit in the woods. It is, in my view, a very powerful scene and the first climax in the film, where we understand for the first time the humanity of the creature, that it understands human speech and is even able to cry!

There are a few questions I'd like to put on this one, if that's ok

- which filmd parodizes this one, most notably the above scene, along with others in the series, in a funny lighthearted way?
- the film starts with a prologue apparently depicting the meeting of Mary Shelley, Lord Byron and Percy Bysshe Shelley in the summer of 1816, in Villa Diodati, Switzerland. This meeting became famous for having been the germinating event for Frankenstein, with the group reading a series of german ghost tales and then each of them trying to come up with one such story. What two other people were part of the group at Villa Diodati that summer?
- Bonus question: what music is the hermit playing when Frankenstein reaches his hut?


Personal opinion questions:
- in this scene, it seems possible that the Monster really is 'good at heart' and merely driven to violence due to the incomprehension and prejudice of others. In the novel, the monster does put forth this idea. Is Victor Frankenstein ultimately convinced of the Monster's original goodness?
- Can it be argued that the Monsters is after all a being of good, from his final scene with Walton and his departure to kill himself?


The above two questions are not for the trivia, but these cover what is to me the central debate in the book, whether malice is provoked by the environment one grows into or is inherent to the individual. Give your answers on this, and perhaps your thoughts on extrapolating this to present day society.

The Blind Hermit parody was part and parcel of Young Frankenstein-Gene Hackman nailed that performance to the wall...

The hermit in the original Bride was playing Ave Maria(and it took forever to remember that because Bela Lugosi's Ygor keeps fiddling over my mental soundtrack-thanks a lot, Ghost of Frankenstein!).

The Geneva Lake party was composed of Percy Shelley, Mary Godwin, Lord Byron, John Polidori (author of The Vampyre, which was widely attributed to Byron for a time even though Lord Ruthven is a parody of Byron himself) and Claire Clairmont.


As to the Creature's innate goodness or lack thereof-the Monster saves a drowning child almost instinctively early in its life, even before he could speak. He does good deeds anonymously while dwelling near the family from whom he learns speech and literacy. I believe the Creature was born as capable of good and evil as any normal man-but constant, unending rejection led him first to rage, then hate, and finally despair. The Monster caused an instinctive revulsion in any that set eyes upon him...even Victor cannot bear to be near his crowning scientific achievement without a constant feeling of overwhelming hatred, a hatred he feels even before he knows the Fiend is responsible for the deaths of William and Justine.

As for Victor's thoughts on the Creature's capacity for good-no being that causes reflexive revulsion in humans can expect a fair trial there. Victor's scientific objectivity was overwhelmed by both instinctive revulsion and the knowledge of its deeds against him-the horrors of what the Fiend was capable of always took precedence over Victor's brief moments of pity.

As for the Creature's thoughts on the subject-once Victor was dead, so was hope. No human could tolerate him, no inhuman Bride was ever going to console him, and a life of solitude(plus the Creature's own disgust of his own dark deeds done in the name of 'justice') promised only a release in madness. And a mad abomination of inhuman powers would be likely to destroy humanity wherever it found them. In the end the Monster, like Robert L. Stevenson's Markham, was doomed to fall further and further...and so like Markham, when forbidden Virtue he could at least refrain from further Evil by his vow of a solitary funeral pyre.


Don't know about the rest of you, but the Voices In My Head insist I change the subject. Pity, I was just about to mention Charles Ogle and Edison's-

(you were warned)
(now we start the smurf songs)
(faaLALALALALAAAA)

-aaand changing subject. There have been many, many ways to dispatch a Vampire throughout literary and cinematic history-but where do we find the first example of Death By Molten Lava?

Your answers are correct

As for your opinion on the monster, they closely resemble mine. It's interesting to see all accounts we get of the monster's actions in the book are through Victor's eyes, and so they are tainted. He finds malice in the monster even before he hears him out, only because of his looks, and so the game is biased from the start.

But we must also be aware of the fact that the monster is quick to revenge, and that may point to an easy disposition to evil, as Victor tries to convince us.

order99 wrote: -aaand changing subject. There have been many, many ways to dispatch a Vampire throughout literary and cinematic history-but where do we find the first example of Death By Molten Lava?

That is surely a hard one, for me at least!

Could it be in "Bloodthirst: Legend of the Chupacabras" ?

Nope.

I'll let this one simmer awhile...

LadySoth wrote:Erasmus Darwin (Charles Darwin's father) was rumored to be doing experiments with reanimating matter and was one possible inspiration.

Erasmus would be Charles' grandfather, not his father.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:
Erasmus would be Charles' grandfather, not his father.

Ah, touché.

-aaand changing subject. There have been many, many ways to dispatch a Vampire throughout literary and cinematic history-but where do we find the first example of Death By Molten Lava?

Wow, that's a moldy oldy! Would that be "Varney the Vampire", who commits suicide by throwing himself into Mt. Vesuvius?