The Eye of Anubis: OOC Thread

[NeoTiamat]

To avoid retreading old ground, here's the Situation As It Stands(tm):

The room you are currently in has natural sunlight in it, meaning you cannot perform the ritual to bind Beherith here (Djihety-Mus, the Priest of Thoth who designed the Tomb, didn't expect anyone binding Beherit for altruistic means). The Conspiracy, being considered traitors by the Fraternity, wants to give the Eye to Vedarrak and Balfour to prevent themselves from being turned inside-out. They're exceedingly reluctant to cut any deal without some method of assuaging the Fraternity. They're arguing you can just steal it back afterward.

Also, you guys are going to be down one at least for the next few days, as Charles is too lost in his own mind to help with anything that breaks out.

It takes at least hour to set up the ritual circles, meaning if you did steal it back, your theft might be discovered before you're done destroying the demon. On the other hand, it also means anyone trying to bind the demon is limited by the same issues.

Fassahd is convinced Balfour will not use the Eye to bind the demon. He's also convinced Menetnashte shouldn't be trusted. He is pretty sure she will not pursue you if you do not have the Eye.

Vedarrak is waiting outside and, as Kuzan has informed you, has probably confiscated your comrades' equipment, meaning he's likely using your friends as hostages again. He's also a fairly powerful FoS mage with a lot of troops at his command. Vedarrak is expecting your return, and is now aware of the Conspiracy's presence, giving you permission to kill all of them.

And no one knows what Cavendish might be up to...

So, what do you want to do? Here are the two main options that seem to have support from more than one PC:

1. Agree with the Conspiracy to give the Eye to Lord de Casteele and the FoS. This definitely avoids a fight with the Conspiracy, and almost assuredly avoids a fight with Vedarrak. If you still want to get the Eye later, you can try to steal it from Lord de Casteele, but that would happen later.

2. Refuse to give the Eye to Lord de Casteele and the FoS. This will almost assuredly mean you have to fight the Conspiracy now, since they won't want to risk getting on the FoS's bad side. It also means that you're going to need to take the Eye out of the Tomb to destroy it, and thus run headlong into Vedarrak, who will probably battle you for it (putting the hostages into danger in the process).

We've seen some third options floated, but none of them with support from more than a single PC. Still, a supported third option might arise, but any third option will need to work around A. the Conspiracy's extreme desire to not antagonize the FoS, and B. the Falkovnian Kommandant with troops, magecraft, and hostages encamped outside.

Also, a general OOC Announcement: Come the 13th of June (Saturday), I am leaving on a week-long tour of Italy. I'm not bringing my laptop, and will be also incommunicado until I return on Sunday the 21st.

I would like to see a decision made by the time I leave, so Friday night. Consensus would be preferable, but in absence of that we go for a vote on all options laid before us, with Charles abstaining by reason of temporary insanity. If we get a dead tie, Edmund's the tie-breaker, though as of the moment I do not know how he'd vote.

Any questions?

[DocBeard]

We only have one moral option, ending the book in anticlimax and failure.

There is absolutely NOTHING I hate more than 'Oh you forgot to cross a T a few chapters ago, you fail.' endings. Andre, Kuzan, Lia, I do not care what you have to roll, there has to be some way to verify if the ritual works or not, and I want you guys to find it, or confirmation that the whole thing is a leap of faith. Meneshante had to learn the ritual from somewhere.

I need a beer.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Knowledge checks, away. *salutes*

*Initial report: this ritual is not an exorcism in the classic sense, which would be of a religious nature and would call on a deity to drive the fiend out. Also, we've been shortchanged on information: the ritual is not enough to bind the fiend's full power. Rather, it is (supposedly) just enough to bind the fiend and kill it. Without knowing the nature of the initial bindings placed on the fiend by Menetnashte, as well as the spells cast on the Eye itself, we don't know what's going on.

The ritual circle is highly esoteric and beyond my current Arcana roll (32). Some similarities to binding circles as used to control elementals at Dementlieu U's arcana branch, but I can't tell whether it's been sabotaged somehow. It is implied that the training to analyze the thing does not exist in this day and age ... so we may still need to call on the fey to give us the answer. Andre, would you care to do the honours?*

**Additional thoughts: it might be better, in the end, if we design a ritual of our own. o_o; We have at least five people capable of calling on deities of some power (Andre, Fassahd, Jervis, Kuzan, Tomas) and quite a bit of arcane and religious knowledge to draw on.**

[Kaitou Kage]

Given the above choices, Kuzan would pick option 1. I don't see any other option right now. Moreover, Kuzan's not about to abandon or sacrifice the others to Vedarrak and it presents more opportunity to deal with the Eye later. He will not settle for option 2, no matter what, so if that is the group consensus, well...I'm not sure what I'll do :/

As for knowledge, I don't have the skills or the scores necessary to get anything more than what Lia found out.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

How are you disposed to option 3?

3.: Somehow exorcize and vanquish the fiend through our own ritual, hopefully leaving the Eye intact and presenting that to Vedarrak, to do with whatever the FoS pleases?

[Kaitou Kage]

How are you disposed to option 3?

3.: Somehow exorcize and vanquish the fiend through our own ritual, hopefully leaving the Eye intact and presenting that to Vedarrak, to do with whatever the FoS pleases?

Yeah, um, if we figure out how to do that, I'll consider it. But even then I lean toward option 1. See my post IC. Even if we give an "Eye" to Vedarrak, he might just kill people anyway because it's not what he wanted. There's also the matter that Fassahd is bringing up -- what Menetnashte gave us may be exactly what she wants us to do, but not for the reasons we think.

[lostboy]

How are you disposed to option 3?

3.: Somehow exorcize and vanquish the fiend through our own ritual, hopefully leaving the Eye intact and presenting that to Vedarrak, to do with whatever the FoS pleases?

The fact that theres natural sunlight in the room means we cant do that anyway doesnt it? I know thats the existing ritual but as Beherith appears to be soem ind of shadow thing, Im guessing Neo might make it a stipulation fo any new ritual as well.

I also think that isnt going to get around the conspiracies "not piss off the Frat policy", because as soon as they work out the eye is a dud, guess who they are goign to come lookign for? I also suspect it wont exactly be easy to magically fool someone like Balfour de Casteele.

On an OOC level IMHO option 2 is fairly likely to result in permanant death for at least several pc's, lots of npc's and ultimately I suspect you'd end up wiht the same result as option 1 anyway. Or worse Cavendish swoops down and nicks it in the confusion, which is the outcome no-one wants. I mean do we really want to take on the conspiracy, Vederrak & his troops and Cavendish all at once? So its basically a lot of death for nothing.

Therefore unless there is another option on the table (and Im scratching my head at this point) much as its a moral nightmare I'm going with Kage, too many will die for not enough gain and although its a bit cowardly, knowing when to call it quits is a good thing sometimes.

The key point is that the eye isnt safe where it is now, something does need to be done with it. So how about the idea that we agree to take the eye back to the Frat, but WE (edmund perhaps) take it, and keep the damn thing in our hands (and where we can see it) the whole time. Is anyone capable of casting a suitable Geas or something similar that would make it impossible for it to be taken by someone else? That at least gives us control over it for a limited time and a chance to do something about it in the future.

[The Whistler]

Aarg. As much as I hate this, the "everybody almost definitely dies right now" option is marginally preferable to "everybody possibly dies later unless we can figure out something vaguely promising to do in the interim." I'll go with option 1 if that's where people seem to be leaning towards, if only because it gives us a little space to stall for time, although I agree that we should research the living heck out of as many contingencies as we can.

[Kaitou Kage]

The key point is that the eye isnt safe where it is now, something does need to be done with it. So how about the idea that we agree to take the eye back to the Frat, but WE (edmund perhaps) take it, and keep the damn thing in our hands (and where we can see it) the whole time. Is anyone capable of casting a suitable Geas or something similar that would make it impossible for it to be taken by someone else? That at least gives us control over it for a limited time and a chance to do something about it in the future.

Kuzan can cast a geas/quest.

[lostboy]

Kuzan can cast a geas/quest.

Cool, anyone else think theres any merit in this?

I guess what Im saying is, IF we have to walk out of here with the eye, theres no way Sascha is gonna be very keen on handing it over to Samael & the conspiracy or Vederrak. If thats the way we go, better us than anyone else to escort it.

[Kaitou Kage]

Well, I can't cast it today and be advised it takes 10 minutes to cast. So the person has to either be willing or somehow restrained.

More to everyone: Whatever the case, Kuzan would rather delay the "inevitable" and try to deal with it in Dementlieu or assess de Casteele's willingness to hide/protect the Eye instead of use it himself. Lily and Andre bring up a very good point about the man. He's not likely going to use it to conquer the world if it means he's a demon lord's slave -- which is effectively what the Eye does.

OOCly, consider too, if we decide not to turn the Eye over, we have two serious issues.

First we'll have to fight the Conspiracy. They're going to be a serious challenge, especially in this room. We are not liable to get past them without suffering major losses. At best, we're going to expend most of our resources stopping them.

Second, we'll have to face Vedarrak and his 40-some soldiers. The sending stone also confirmed what we all pretty much knew, so we'd sentence our friends outside to death. As I've said, this last is something Kuzan will not abide by. So as far as he's concerned, option 1 is our only choice.

From a more detached standpoint, option 2 seems pretty foolhardy and the "less good" path. We end up killing people that we don't actually need to kill (despite their varying degrees of maliciousness), we get people killed that we could've saved, and we likely end up dying ourselves. Not only is it not a very fun way to end the campaign, but the Eye will probably end up in Vedarrak's hands anyway.

Option 3 makes me edgy for similar reasons -- Vedarrak and de Casteele know the Eye is a powerful artifact and they're both extremely powerful. If we hand them a dud, we're probably consigning ourselves to a similar fate as option 2. In addition, Option 3 will take time, time we may not have. Vedarrak knows we're deep in the tomb and now he knows we've encountered the Conspiracy. He's expecting us back soon. If we waste too much of his time, it's possible we'll be putting the axe to the others' necks. He's not going to wait for us forever. Kuzan, at least, is not keen on standing around for another five hours while we try to figure this out. There are people out there he likes and doesn't want killed, especially on his watch.

So I think we need to go Option 1 and see what book 12 has in store for us.

[NeoTiamat]

There is absolutely NOTHING I hate more than 'Oh you forgot to cross a T a few chapters ago, you fail.' endings. Andre, Kuzan, Lia, I do not care what you have to roll, there has to be some way to verify if the ritual works or not, and I want you guys to find it, or confirmation that the whole thing is a leap of faith. Meneshante had to learn the ritual from somewhere.

The Anubite's Ritual is meant as a Leap of Faith, yes. Fassahd doesn't trust her and is unwilling to make that leap of faith, but though Fassahd is well-informed on the situation, he doesn't have the personal experience you do. So, do you trust Menetnashte?

That said, if anyone can make a DC 40 Spellcraft check, I'll give precise confirmation on whether or not the ritual works. And yes, I am aware that is nearly impossible, and yes, that is intentional.

All the other check results mostly boil down to "It looks like it should work, but if it was sabotaged you can't tell."

3.: Somehow exorcize and vanquish the fiend through our own ritual, hopefully leaving the Eye intact and presenting that to Vedarrak, to do with whatever the FoS pleases?

Possible, albeit exceedingly difficult. As Lostboy points out, the natural-sunlight prohibition is inherent in Beherit and the original bindings.

For the actual development of the ritual, I would probably come up with something based off of the Epic Spellcasting development rules, albeit without requiring the feat. This means that it will cost a LOT of money, a LOT of XP, and a fair bit of time, though I'll allow you to pool your experience costs if necessary.

I would allow using the Faerie or the other resources you have at your disposal (such as Devereux's 'contacts') to reduce or transform various costs to what you can pay. I should warn you, however, that the Tomb is designed to be nearly impossible to breach by supernatural forces, so there is zero guarantee that you could summon the Oracle or Thorn or anyone else inside. Likewise, if you guys can get access to a big old occult library (like back at Kamarn-Quse) that would also help, but it would require you getting there.

So researching a new ritual is very likely going to require you getting out of the Tomb and past Vedarrak, with all the difficulties and danger that entails. And if you do stay inside, there's no guarantee that Vedarrak won't start sending hostages into the Tomb with a Geas spell to retrieve the Eye on them, or simply start executing them and informing you via Sending Stone till you come out.

Not to mention you'd still need to fool Lord de Casteele with the reduced Eye, which the Conspiracy might view as an unacceptable risk. After all, it nearly blinded Kuzan when he looked at it, and an Umbra of the FoS is going to be a demanding customer.

If you guys are serious about this, then I'll see about settling the crafting details before I leave.

Kuzan can cast a geas/quest.

I should point out that all Geas would do is give the Geased person huge penalties/regular damage if the 'Quest' is not fulfilled. So even if you Geas Edmund into holding on to the Eye, it doesn't stop Vedarrak from taking the Eye, it just means that Ed is going to be taking regular damage as long as he doesn't have the Eye.

Which is probably not what you have in mind.

===============================================

Also, just to play Devil's Advocate here for a moment, but if you do fight the Conspiracy, you can always opt to deal Nonlethal Damage. It would make an already difficult fight that much harder, though. Plus, of course, there's no guarantee that Jervis or the Conspiracy would extend the same courtesy to you, and we can pretty safely say that Vedarrak would not extend the same courtesy to you.

But it's an available option.

[DocBeard]

Like I said, there is in fact only one option. I believe we have a majority now, frankly: Kuzan, Otto, Sascha, and myself. We are good at last minute option 3s but this railroad was too well laid.

We know from Lia that Meneshante lied to us as to the specifics of the ritual-and Fasshad's loyalties, unless he can beat a 30 Sense Motive roll on cue. We can still work on fixing it, but not here and now-fortunately, we have a long trip back to the Core to secretly do research, and Carter has access to the best magic artifact killers in the Demiplane.

If necessary we can fake illness or injure someone to force a layaway in Hazlan or Barovia to sneak a visit to the Guardians. Frankly, if all else fails, we can always let Drakov know where Vedarrak's real loyalties lie-I'm sure Otto and Charles can falsify some evidence if we really need it. Kuzan, do you have access to cause disease? That might help.

Sparing Vedarrak's life was obviously a mistake, and I take full blame for that. Sorry, cost of running with a moralfag I guess.

Guys, who here can make a DC 40 spellcraft check? Like, can anyone even if they roll a 20? What are our other options-mass aid another, bonuses for rare tomes, ect? We cannot trust the text or the subtext anymore, so I am no longer willing to go with the narrative flow.

[lostboy]

but if you do fight the Conspiracy, you can always opt to deal Nonlethal Damage.

You are having a laugh arent you? Sascha takes on jervis but only opts ot deal non-leathal damage, that would likely be templar sushi in two rounds flat...

Doc's right, option 1 buys time, and it also means we get an armed escort just in case Cavendish tries a night of the living dead scenario. As a final point we know (or can guess) what Cavendish will do with the eye, we dont exactly know what Balfour intends, so theres a chance he isnt as Kage says exactly keen on being a demons cabin boy. Lesser of two evils and all that.

Which is probably not what you have in mind.

Which is why I dont play a heavy magic user.....

Any chance we could Geas Vederrak so unless he's nice to us he takes damage? No? Thought not.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Lia could get 40 if she rolled a 20 on her Spellcraft check. I'm hazy on what the results would be if she'd take 20, though ...?