Café de Nuit

Charney wrote:I agree with most that has been said here. Slowing down the release schedule doesn't mean the setting is dying. In fact, it'll allow me to buy the books. For instance, I don't have Masque (I still hope for a reprint with errata) and LoB.

But I don't agree that it should all be gazetteers. At least they should vary the narrator. S is great for the core and seas but I'd like some variety. I still say we need a knight of the circle for the Shadowlands (that's what will be written on my tombstone).

And to Drinnik, I assume during your hangover you forgot RL has many talented writers who proven their skills in writting for the setting.

I did acknowledge (in a fleeting sentance) the decent authors.

You don't want to know how much I had to drink...

ScS of the Fraternity wrote:I object to the charge that Lord of the Necropolis was a bad book.

I didn't say bad book. I said misstep. I liked it too, but I think it was a huge enough mistake to try to define the dark powers that it cast a pall over the whole book.

Jack of Tears wrote:See, now, I really liked Forged of Darkness. What one must realize is that the items were not meant for player consumption. As with the Book of Artifacts, the pieces therein weren't meant to be toys, but vehicles for adventures.

I agree, which is why I left it out of my original list. But I still have yet to see some really good, USABLE magic items with a Ravenloft feel. In both FoD, and RLDMG, it seemed that items with a curse had to be awful, foul things to cast into the fires of Mount Doom lest they rip the party apart. I would prefer some items with shades of grey where the debate over the usefulness of the item vs. its drawbacks would actually be meaningful.

I think that a lot of the bile directed at FoD is similar to that of SotDR. Anger at it not being the book people wanted it to be, not that it itself is bad.

gonzoron wrote:But I still have yet to see some really good, USABLE magic items with a Ravenloft feel.

Including those in van Richten's Arsenal?

Malus Black wrote:

gonzoron wrote:But I still have yet to see some really good, USABLE magic items with a Ravenloft feel.

Including those in van Richten's Arsenal?

Point taken, I forgot about those. That's exactly the sort of items I like to see. I just don't think there were enough of them. (And even some of those are kind of lame. Bloodseeker garlic?)

gonzoron wrote:

ScS of the Fraternity wrote:I object to the charge that Lord of the Necropolis was a bad book.

I didn't say bad book. I said misstep. I liked it too, but I think it was a huge enough mistake to try to define the dark powers that it cast a pall over the whole book.

FWIW, I've sometimes thought that the whole LotN novel could've been salvaged if they'd only replaced the last couple of pages (the ones where Azalin's disembodied consciousness is drifting through who-knows-where, plotting revenge) with a very brief tidbit from *the Dark Powers'* point of view. Not one that would give anything of their nature away -- it could be third-person and extremely ambiguous -- but just enough to make it clear that the DPs had been stringing ol' Azzie along, the entire time... including when he *thought* he'd glimpsed an insight into their motives.

Along those lines, I really, really wish that there was a way for the current writers to publish more *novels* for Ravenloft. Some of their products' "fluff text" definitely puts many of the authors of the original TSR paperbacks to shame; it'd be fantastic to see more, and would do a lot to inspire the "style" of the setting (though preferably not at the expense of more game products).

Out of curiosity, what happened with the Kargatane and White Wolf?

Before White Wolf leased the rights to Ravenloft the Kargatane were sanctioned as producers of Canon material. After WW took over they formed a partnership with the kargatane - many of the Kargatne wrote for White Wolf, and they offered other services as well.

Eventually, tension developed between the members of the Kargatane and the other writers/developers. The kargatane resigned their place and both sides have spattered various message boards with their own accounts of the events.

Gotcha.

Anywhere where I can find these?

The Kargatane were the ones who kept RL alive and made it easy for WW to milk money out of it.
If they were driven out of the company, that's a bloody shame!

OK, another try:)

The kargatane were 6 persons that made the great Ravenloft site that became the first "official fan site" for the setting.

When the RL line was dropped by WotC, the kargatane held the fort and kept Ravenloft alive on the web for a couple of years.

When RL came back to life in 3e by WW, the kargatane were among the first to be hired by WW because they were great writers and knew the setting like no one else.

They were able to greatly influence directions of the 3e line until they stopped working with the current developpers because of many problems and frictions. Among these, let's say that controversial things were included in 3e RL books, that didn't make sense to many. But the tensions seemed to grow and became nearly impossible to reconcile, so they stopped writing for the RL line, except Ryan IIRC.

Joël

Joël

I personally have no problem with WW's policy... It's just that this reminds me a bit of the Gygax - TSR situation at the end of the 80s...

But while Greyhawk was strong enough to get along 10 more years, I seriously doubt that RL will survive more of such *blows*...

Desdichado wrote: I personally have no problem with WW's policy... It's just that this reminds me a bit of the Gygax - TSR situation at the end of the 80s...

But while Greyhawk was strong enough to get along 10 more years, I seriously doubt that RL will survive more of such *blows*...

I never understood why Greyhawk even exist, but, anyway... That's just my poor mind!