Café de Nuit

Here's a couple of things I found while re-reading Shadow of the Knife:

There are steam-powered looms that weave cloth.

Sodo can close the domain borders, but he has no control over the border between Paridon and Timor. He cannot close the connection between the streets and the sewers.

The Hive Queen CAN close the border between the streets and Timor.

The Dopplegangers are almost as afraid of the Marikith as the humans are! They really don't know what the "Shadow Hunters" are, or how they operate. This reinforces the idea that the Marikith are the "unknown" and the fear of the unknown is their weapon. They are completely alien creatures that are not understood by anything around them. Some people in Paridon even believe they are benign creatures that just can't overcome the language barrier!

There are steam-powered looms that weave cloth.

I'd say that settles any controversay there might have been over whether there are factories or not.

Here's an idea to open the city up again.

At the end of the Shadow the people of Paridon find out that Bloody Jack wasn't a Doppelganger but some horrible construct instead. Sodo leapt on this failure to harness the rumors and turn them to his advantage. Public opinion now discounts the idea of doppelgangers running rampant in the city and instead believe that the Bloody Jack murders are the result of a mad man's creations. Further Bloody Jack murders are the fault of other hidden constructs, all of the pieces coming from outside the city (in those primative places where they believe in "Gods" or elves being the same as humans).

This would could also spiral out of control and fuel an already present Luddite movement who don't understand the difference between a flesh golem and a iron golem. Sodo might even support this group from the shadows, aiming it at anything he believes would threaten his control of the city.

Something like this will probably be the case. I doubt the Darkpowers would draw such deadly creatures right out into the open. Besides, if everyone questioned whether everyone was a Doppleganger, the society would crumble into chaos. However certain parts are chaotic (i.e. Blackchapel), there is still an established government and commerce.

Besides, the dopplegangers have quite a bit of power. I'm sure they could pull a few strings to cover themselves. We have to remember that this is a realm: not just the remains of an adventure or two.

Undead Cabbage wrote:

There are steam-powered looms that weave cloth.

I'd say that settles any controversay there might have been over whether there are factories or not.

I would still maintain, however, that they are relatively few of them, and that they are pretty new. besdies - a population of 12000 or so would not allow too many factories I would think.

(Though this just serves to give me more ideas: in Victorian England they used ti hire small children to service and clean the machines - which could be an interesting thing for halflings to do? That, and chimeny sweepers. Would a chimeny sweeper character not make a GREAT Paridon spy? I thought so!)

Sodo can close the domain borders, but he has no control over the border between Paridon and Timor. He cannot close the connection between the streets and the sewers.

Even if this is written in "Shadow of the Knife", we shouldn't copy it.
NO second Timor City! That scenario just sucked big time, as you weren't even able to go on the toilett anymore without being attacked from below...
I know Timor was more defensless because of all the pipes and tubes, but most of Paridon's houses are probably easier to get into anyway.
As I described it in my "Hidden War" Dread Possibility there should be a need for Sodo to let the borders remain open at certain times (let shipments of food get in). But him being unabel to close the Timor border would be like Verbeks or Falkovnias neighbours being unabel to shut the border.

There is the minor problem that closing the borders at set times doesn't necessarily work. The Mists aren't known for being temporally stable, so shipments could easily arrive at all hours, no matter what time they leave.

We could easily lower the number of Marikith attacks (and it's obvious that they weren't too high in Shadow of the Knife), but we really need to look at Sodo's reasons for keeping the border open. Making him unable to close it makes sense. Putting something he wants into Timor (and thus needing to leave the door open to allow a hasty return from his agents) would be a better idea.

EDIT: By the way, what is the overarching theme of the Cluster? Paranoia and Fear of the "Other"?

Here's a wild-card thought about borders: what if the border between the two domains were unstable, shifting up and down the individual tunnels in a random fashion? That would certainly account for the existence of a "border zone" that melds together elements of the two realms (which seems to be a popular idea), and would reflect Sodo's instability of shape and the insidious, bodily-invasive nature of the marikith.

Imagine if Sodo did learn to close his borders properly, in the aftermath of SotK, but each time he does so, the border's in a slightly different location? Sometimes, the first few hundred feet below-ground would be in Paridon, and (relatively) safe for Paridon's outcasts so long as he keeps the borders closed. However, if he opens them to let a shipment of goods through the Mists, then closes them again, the border might turn out to have moved closer to ground-level, trapping the subterranean outcasts in Timor, instead! Whole enclaves might suddenly discover they can't find their way back to the surface, and are left as prey to the marikith until the border shifts again....

Heck, the border could even shift so far up as to place Paridon's deeper cellars within Timor's boundaries, once in a while. Great reason to be afraid of your basement ... and if you've been keeping your deformed caliban kids hidden down there, better hope they don't hate you so much for doing so that Timor's side-effects upon Powers Check-makers won't start transforming them into something much, much worse....

To add to Rotipher's good idea (like it BTW),

Paridon has notoriously foggy streets? Is there any chance that maybe the border could close off sections as well? Who says a domain border can't twist, bend, or break off in certain areas?

What this does is this makes walking around in what is already a maze of streets even more interesting.

Rotipher wrote:Here's a wild-card thought about borders: what if the border between the two domains were unstable, shifting up and down the individual tunnels in a random fashion? That would certainly account for the existence of a "border zone" that melds together elements of the two realms (which seems to be a popular idea), and would reflect Sodo's instability of shape and the insidious, bodily-invasive nature of the marikith.

Ooohhhh...me likey. It does make a lot of sense that the ever-changing Sodo would have a highly unstable domain; this would also reflect the see-saw struggle between the Hive Queen and Sodo for the upper hand in the cluster. Perhaps when either one seems to have gained a great tactical advantage or is preparing to land a crushing blow, the Dark Powers intervene by handing most of the disputed territory to the underdog?

Heck, the border could even shift so far up as to place Paridon's deeper cellars within Timor's boundaries, once in a while. Great reason to be afraid of your basement ... and if you've been keeping your deformed caliban kids hidden down there, better hope they don't hate you so much for doing so that Timor's side-effects upon Powers Check-makers won't start transforming them into something much, much worse....

"Mother?...no...you're not my mother. I have a new mother now."

So, who's called dibs on what again? Could you PM me what you plan to do and/or wish to do so I can make and post a master list.

William Blackmoor wrote:

Sodo can close the domain borders, but he has no control over the border between Paridon and Timor. He cannot close the connection between the streets and the sewers.

Even if this is written in "Shadow of the Knife", we shouldn't copy it.
NO second Timor City! That scenario just sucked big time, as you weren't even able to go on the toilett anymore without being attacked from below...
I know Timor was more defensless because of all the pipes and tubes, but most of Paridon's houses are probably easier to get into anyway.
As I described it in my "Hidden War" Dread Possibility there should be a need for Sodo to let the borders remain open at certain times (let shipments of food get in). But him being unabel to close the Timor border would be like Verbeks or Falkovnias neighbours being unabel to shut the border.

Don't write too much, we're still in the brainstorming stage.

But is Sodo can just close off the borders that negates the threat from below. And if the border is always closed then how does waste get removed? And why didn't he just close off that border when he realized the threat in SotK?
Remember, it took years for Timor to be depopulated and Paridon has many more people (and things).

Besides, if the Queen has other things to worry about (such as a second queen) she may be less concerns with above-ground genocide.

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Foru ... 6163#46163
The Dib List, updated as I see fit.

Could I call dibs on Outlook and World view? I think that it goes hand in hand with the whole Art thing I was promoting.

( I think someone had already called "Language" - or at least they wanted to make a language primer? - otherwise, I can probably lump that in with the art/culture/world view thing. So, let's say "dibs" on that too?)

I know it sounds like a lot, but they are really compimentary, I would think.

let me know, ye mighty co-ordinators!!!

I agree with David; I think it should be left that Sodo cannot close the border between Timor and Paridon. Otherwise, he'd just close it everytime the Marikith started to attack in any significant numbers.

It's stated that it's Sodo's habit to always close the borders around the time of the Bloody Jack murders, so as to stop victims or the knife from leaving the domain.

Request David,

Sorry if I wasn't conheirant before. My role would more follow under 'Towns and Neighborhoods' than peoples and places of interest in the appendix. Basically, I'd like to do the 'Landscape' section, as well as map the realm.

For Sodo, There have been others that have demonstrated a lot of interest in him. I'll take it if others don't, but otherwise we can always use help.

I think what we need to do is perhaps get everything well established as to who is doing what. I don't see reason why Barabossa shouldn't get Outlook and World View.

Question for the frat members, should this be based off the format of the official gazetteers? I.e. Landscape, flora, fauna, etc.

In the end, I'd even be willing to totally withdraw from other sections to deal with Part I. I've been doing some drawings and sketching of ideas for Paridon's...'environment'. I also know that this is an area of interest for me personally.

We're trying for our own format that will likely evolve over time and shift to meet the requirements of each Gaz.
For example, the geography section isn't really needed or relevant for Paridon, neither are a list of towns. However, the city can and should be divided into buroughs and districts and attention paid to each.