Souragne Gazetteer review

[Steve Miller]

I have some time this weekend, so I'll write up a little thing on Native PCs from Souragne.

[Mortavius]

So far what I've seen of the gaz is good, but I'd like to make some suggestions.

I'd like to suggest that the gaz be segmented a bit more. By this, I mean the way the actual Gaz's are segmented. Flora, Fauna, Sites of Interest, etc. This segmentation makes it very easy to find what you're looking for when flipping through the gaz. As important as the presentation and story is, we have to have a nod towards usability as well.

I don't think it's a bad thing to ape some of the aspects of the Karg's gazes; those are some of the most popular Ravenloft books released, and it's not a bad thing to take ideas from successful products.

[Jester of the FoS]

It's one thing to take an idea from a product (hey, let's devote an entire book to describing some lands) but it's another to wholey rip off that idea (hey, let's use all their sections and formatting. Oh, and everyone likes S, we can add her too!).
I was never fond of seperating flora and fauna. They always seemed like really small sections that should have been combined. Meanwhile other categories were shuffled with "lifestyle" making that a jumbled read. The Kargatane's Gaz were not perfect.

[Pamela]

I agree with Jester; the divisions in the Gaz's were clunky. I personally never understood the 'attitude to magic' requiring its own section, for example.

Beyond that, the point of the surveys is to read in depth about these domains which haven't been detailed well (in general). If you have a wealth of information, then you can afford to break it up more precisely. That's not the case here.

[Mortavius]

Really? I found the Flora and Fauna sections very helpful. I knew at a glance where to look when I wanted to know what monsters were common in the domain.

I'll agree that the Attitudes of Magic section wasn't as helpful (although I always found it a fascinating read) but I think the sections on Religions was very good too.

And, let's not over-react here. I said use some aspects of the books; I didn't say that we should "rip-off" everything like using "S" as well. Borrowing ideas on the way they did their formating and layouts is not going to devalue these new Gaz's in any way.

After all, it's just a thought and some constructive critisism

[Pamela]

I'm personally just questioning things like having Sites of Interest at the end of the chapter rather than at the beginning with Landscape. The cultural divisions were also a little too clearcut for my taste (why separate appearance and clothing when together they never totalled more than a page?). I just prefer general sections myself, where I can get an overall feeling rather than artificial divisions which eventually bleed into each other.

But that's a matter of preference, isn't it?

[The Giamarga]

I have some time this weekend, so I'll write up a little thing on Native PCs from Souragne.

Great! Looking forward to it!

[alhoon]

I agree with Jester; the divisions in the Gaz's were clunky. I personally never understood the 'attitude to magic' requiring its own section, for example.

I believe it was there because S was a wizard She thought that very important. It didn't take much space and helped the Kargatane pronounce a few aspects of her character. So I believe that it was there just because a type like S would put it there.

[Mortepierre]

Just skimmed through it but wanted already to congratulate the whole team on a splendid job.

That said, I wish more had been said about magic in Souragne. For a long time now, we've been told by several accessories that there is a ban on anything not necromantic. This has been especially difficult to translate into game terms given the obvious use of other magic schools by NPC in that domain (abjuration, divination, and evocation mainly).

I was really looking forward to a section explaining how to put it into action, which classes were concerned, what % the darklord had to detect such spells, etc...

Ah well, guess it leaves something for a web enhancement

[Joël of the FoS]

Hey, it's in the book Pages 48-49 (and again in Anton's background p 88 )

Joël

[Mortepierre]

Aye, but not in terms that explain it fully.

For instance, from the text, it seems any divine spell is allowed (though it's not clearly stated) but only arcane magic of the Necromancy school is allowed.

Yet, in the Arcane Magic sidebar on p.49, one finds that the darklord doesn't understand arcane magic, nor has he any fullproof mean of tracking it. So, when a local witnesses someone casting Protection from Evil for instance, how can he tell if it's a divine or arcane spell? Not all priests run around in "priestly garb", displaying silver holy symbols for all to see (not to mention those mages which carry holy symbols for protection!). Furthermore, many (arcane) Necromantic spells have no visible effects or have effects which aren't tied to either "hurting" or "healing". So, what about those?

Or are we to understand that only divine magic cast by worshippers of the Loa is fully allowed and the rest is "banned by default"?

No, sorry but IMHO that's not clear (yet).

Of course, given this gazetteer is a gift, we can't complain, but once more the burden to solve that difficult problem falls back on each DM.

[Joël of the FoS]

Sorry, I thought it was clear when I wrote it

Healing, druidic and beneficial divine magic is allowed.
Arcane Necromantic magic is allowed.
All loa related magic is allowed.

The rest (arcane of other type than necromantic) is banned by Anton, with the said limits on enforcing this ban.

---

You raise a good question about the "look" of the caster. Considering voodan are mixing arcana and divine magic, Souragiens are used to people not looking like "classic" priests making spells.

The idea is that as long as it's perceived as beneficial, you won't get into problems. In the grey zone, you'll get "advices" or minor threats. If you are seen as a "wizard", you'll get into trouble if you cast other things then permitted magic. (I guess DMs could use a bluff check if they try to cast spells and pass it as benevolent healing.)

Joël

[Mortepierre]

Thanks Joel, that's clearer. Not fullproof but clearer. T'was rather similar to what I had enforced till now in my campaign anyway, so no big problem in sight. Apart from the fact that I hadn't thought of locals looking for magic and reporting to the DL. I guess the bard of the team will finally find a use for his insanely high Bluff skill

[Jester of the FoS]

Or are we to understand that only divine magic cast by worshippers of the Loa is fully allowed and the rest is "banned by default"?

Yeah, pretty much. That's what our Gaz all but said and every other description of the land said.
There are no rules behind that, no hard crunch on the chances of discovery, because it's a social factor, it's DM's discretion.
If someone wants to run a game and a player wants a wizard it's up to each DM to decide how to handle that. We don't want them to feel bound to roll a percentile every time the wizard fires off a prestidigitation, especially if it risks bringing a low level group into the gaze of Anton.

So, when a local witnesses someone casting Protection from Evil for instance, how can he tell if it's a divine or arcane spell? Not all priests run around in "priestly garb", displaying silver holy symbols for all to see (not to mention those mages which carry holy symbols for protection!). Furthermore, many (arcane) Necromantic spells have no visible effects or have effects which aren't tied to either "hurting" or "healing". So, what about those?

Lots of other spells period don't have a visible effect. A broad rule for discovery (10% per spell level or 1% per spell level multiplied by caster level) would mean that every time a wizard cast a divination spell they might be spotted by the locals.

Anyone casting a spell that is not running around in priestly garb is simply going to attract attention. So people with the obvious vestments and symbols of Ezra tend to be safe and those dressed as practitioners of Voodan are also safe. No questions asked.
If a wizard wants to disguise themselves as a priest or pretend to cast spells by calling down a favour from god you don't need extra rules. That's a simple disguise check and, as Joel said, a bluff check.
But there's always exceptions as no priest can ever nuke a building with a fireball.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

What about spell-like abilities, such as gnomish racial cantrips or some of the supernatural abilities acquired from character class? Are they subject to these restrictions too, or does that limitation only apply to spells? In other words, if a gnome uses an innate racial cantrip and it's spotted by an observer, would Misroi lose interest if investigation proves that the gnome isn't actually a spellcaster, but an otherwise-mundane fighter taking advantage of a petty racial perk?