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Manual of the Planes (1e) was written by Jeff Grubb in 1987, the vestiges of by gone evils (Dark Powers) mentioned in Curse of Strahd (5e) were probably inspired by this. The Black Box was published in 1990.alhoon wrote: Wed Apr 23, 2025 12:20 pm Who are they?
The Hickmans? I am not sure they were aware of this in MoP. The people turning Ravenloft to what it is... probably had someone aware of this.
Yes that is a downer, but you can always skip that part, you can use the Amber Temple (or something with an entirely different name) as Stahd's hideout the one that his contigency spell sends him, the "hidden cave in the Balinoks" mentioned in House of Strahd. The Amber Temple is too Har'Akir in my opinion, since Barovia is based on Transylvania I would make the Amber Temple be based on Dacian culture.alhoon wrote: Thu Apr 24, 2025 11:55 am I was very disappointed that a fine adventure like CoS, which by some of my non-Ravenloft playing friends is considered one of the best of 5e era, defines the Dark Powers and sticks them in a temple.
I think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:19 am Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:
Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.
Personally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).Teravala wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 1:07 pmI think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:19 am Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:
Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.
Not to be contrary, but Chris Perkins stated that Vecna was present, though not explicitly named in CoS, most likely as the unnamed God of Secrets in the Amber Temple. Granted, there is an 8 year gap between CoS and the Vecna adventure, (released in May of 2024) but that really isn't that long when you consider they were likely already storyboarding and planning their product timeline. There is definitely merit to the idea that they were trying to capitalize somewhat on stranger things and on CR, but I feel strongly that when they were developing CoS, they already had Vecna: Eve of Ruin in their sights, even if it wasn't fully fleshed out yet. This especially makes sense as vecna was a dark lord before he was a God, and had already appeared in the Ravenloft product lines once before, and CoS was one of the earliest 5e products. Seems like purposeful seeding to me, easily overlooked by the casual observer, but with dots to be connected if you do some digging, and much easier to see in hindsight.Speedwagon wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 5:32 pmPersonally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).Teravala wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 1:07 pmI think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:19 am Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:
Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.
Yeah that makes sense! I suppose I'm just disappointed with how Vecna: Eve of Ruin came out, even if it was in the works for so long. CoS, even with its deviations to 2e/3e canon, is a pretty solid adventure that I've loved to run & play, so it's a shame to see the adventure quality fall-off so much.Teravala wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 11:11 amNot to be contrary, but Chris Perkins stated that Vecna was present, though not explicitly named in CoS, most likely as the unnamed God of Secrets in the Amber Temple. Granted, there is an 8 year gap between CoS and the Vecna adventure, (released in May of 2024) but that really isn't that long when you consider they were likely already storyboarding and planning their product timeline. There is definitely merit to the idea that they were trying to capitalize somewhat on stranger things and on CR, but I feel strongly that when they were developing CoS, they already had Vecna: Eve of Ruin in their sights, even if it wasn't fully fleshed out yet. This especially makes sense as vecna was a dark lord before he was a God, and had already appeared in the Ravenloft product lines once before, and CoS was one of the earliest 5e products. Seems like purposeful seeding to me, easily overlooked by the casual observer, but with dots to be connected if you do some digging, and much easier to see in hindsight.Speedwagon wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 5:32 pmPersonally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).Teravala wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 1:07 pm
I think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.
I completely understand that sentiment. I don't really play much 5e, because for all it's merits, it feels weirdly corporate and streamlined too much. I feel like it's adventures ignore decades of real world lore and books, and the accessibility en masse isn't a worthwhile trade off for me. But I have a suspicion this was how 1e players felt about 2e, and 2e about 3e, and so on.Speedwagon wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:15 pmYeah that makes sense! I suppose I'm just disappointed with how Vecna: Eve of Ruin came out, even if it was in the works for so long. CoS, even with its deviations to 2e/3e canon, is a pretty solid adventure that I've loved to run & play, so it's a shame to see the adventure quality fall-off so much.Teravala wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 11:11 amNot to be contrary, but Chris Perkins stated that Vecna was present, though not explicitly named in CoS, most likely as the unnamed God of Secrets in the Amber Temple. Granted, there is an 8 year gap between CoS and the Vecna adventure, (released in May of 2024) but that really isn't that long when you consider they were likely already storyboarding and planning their product timeline. There is definitely merit to the idea that they were trying to capitalize somewhat on stranger things and on CR, but I feel strongly that when they were developing CoS, they already had Vecna: Eve of Ruin in their sights, even if it wasn't fully fleshed out yet. This especially makes sense as vecna was a dark lord before he was a God, and had already appeared in the Ravenloft product lines once before, and CoS was one of the earliest 5e products. Seems like purposeful seeding to me, easily overlooked by the casual observer, but with dots to be connected if you do some digging, and much easier to see in hindsight.Speedwagon wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 5:32 pm
Personally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).