Café de Nuit

ReDeeMeR wrote:While this is still hot what about false history? At least in civilized Nidala.
And another thing. Though we know that it was Alexi who founded the Circle in RL, there is no mention about it up until Gondegal enters the demiplane and is rescued by Vladinova. That was before the GC. What would the structure/goals of the Circle be like in those times? (having in mind that there was no Shadowlands cluster prior to 747)

Very good point.

Also, there is no reference to the current developments in the Shadowlands in the Mangrum's fantastic timeline, IIRC. If I am not mistaken, there are like ten or twenty years where there is no record of any incident.

Azalin Rex wrote:2 Rafael, Agent of the Fraternity from Grey Realm

Of course I have the campaign journals, but i think you'll have a problem trying to read them because they are written on Darkonish.
But all deeds of heroes and villians are inscribed in a special timeline. And it is not a small one.

Such a file, possibly combined with some explanatory footnotes would be extraordinary! Please, send it to me if you have it at your disposal.
My email address is: glaive@gmx.de

Now, since Jester will have the last word on such decissions, I cannot say how much of it would end up in a supposed book, but I strongly favor to insert as many fan elements as possible. Especially with the Shadowlands, that should be easy, because it is one of the least detailed, but best supported and fan-loved domains.

Proposed Gazetteer Layout.

Chapter 1: Introduction
Layout
The Shadowlands
sidebar: Shadowlands (population, demographics, etc)

Chapter 2: Avonleigh
The Land
Geography (physical description, landscape, local names)

• Phantasmal Forrest

Noteworthy Features (not specific places, but large important stretches of landscaoe)
Flora & Fauna

The People
Culture (lifestyle, worldview, fashion, architecture)
Races (human and non)
sidebar - Adventurers (instead of the Gaz's "X Hero" which recommended feats/builds/classes -essentially limiting creativity- I'd go with something similar to the FR Player's Guide where we have sample characters and backgrounds and motives).
History

• False
  Recent

Politics (who rules, foreign relations)
Beliefs (Religion, spirituality, thoughts on magic 'n' monsters)
Trade (what they have and who the sell with)
Noteworthy Individuals

• Monastary/monks
  Morogoth
  ____
  ____

Places
Settlements

• ____
  ____

Noteworthy Places

• Forenoon Abbey
  Teregon Manor
  Unicorn Glade
  ____
  ____

Chapter 3: Nidala
The Land

• Geography
  Noteworthy Features
  • Lake Amenta
    Mt. Malcredo
    Theospire Mountains
  Flora & Fauna
  
  The People
  Culture
  Races
  sidebar - Adventurers
  History
  • False
    Recent
  Politics
  Beliefs
  Trade
  Noteworthy Individuals
  • Local circle member
    Elena Faith-hold.
    ____
    ____
  Places
  Settlements
  • Drya
    Oneire
    Richochet
    Touraine
    ____
  Noteworthy Places
  • Faithhold
    ____
    ____
  Chapter 4: Shadowborn Manor
  (the inclusion of this chapter is arguable. It could be bundled with either of the above and, in a print book, I would do so. But with the online advantage I'd add it for additional info but keep it short).
  The Land
  Geography (surrounding terrain)
  Layout
  
  The People
  Culture (assumed from the contents, culture of neighbours)
  History
  • False
    Recent

Noteworthy Individuals

Appendix I: Player Information
3e
Feats
Prestige Class (revised Knight of Shadows?)
Items

4e
Feats
Paragon Paths
New powers?
Items

Appendix II: DM Information
3e
New Monsters
New Rules

4e
New Monsters
New Rules

Appendix III: Who's Doomed
Ebonbane
Elena Faith-Hold
Morogoth

Just finished reading this thread. Many good ideas, as always.

Are you guys going to put living people in Avonleigh? The game module that featured Avonleigh presented the place as a dark forest devoid of signs of forest creatures, IIRC.

Personally I always thought it would be cool to transplant the monasteries in Elaine Bergstrom's The Tapestry Of Dark Souls from Tepest to Avonleigh. Even the villain there has a name similar to Morogoth (whose name is also similar to Meredoth, but I digress....), so it is not impossible to retcon things a little, turn the tapestry into a profane version of the veil that had the face of Jesus on it (yes, I borrowed that from Anne Rice's Memnoth the Devil) - a veil rumored to have the face of Belenus in this case? That will get Elena Faith-Hold's zeal all fired up if she needs a distraction from trying to crack the puzzle that is Shadowborn Manor.

ETA: I'm not too fond of the idea of Thokos. To me, a darklord shouldn't need someone to abet her to become more evil. Elena should be "voluntarily" evil. Having Thokos to push her over the limit seems like an easy and rather contrived plot device. Kinda like Azalin's nastiness turning out to be the mastermind of his valet - it feels like a cop out. I'd rather see Thokos as her willing accomplice rather than manipulator.

Thoughts:

Morogoth
I'd tie his past more to Elena's. Perhaps she was a member of the knightly order that benefited from his council before he was outted (perhaps she wasn't there at that time).
I'd make Morogoth the Merlin to Elena's Aurthur. Having survived the adventure (via feign death) he has free reign in the Phantasmal forest. But he uses magical mirrors to communicate with Elena (possibly thanks to Ebonbane's weakening of the cluster's borders). He might act as a magical advisory and confidant.

The Knighthood
I'd have Elena founding a new knightly order (a round table?) but, due to her curse, she only keeps those without strong feelings to the cause. It's a knighthood of disenfranchised nobles, apathetic warriors, and cold-hearted killers.

One fallen knight from the order might be a wanted criminal, a rebel in the land. The Rogue Knight. Perhaps he's creating a resistance movement or hoping to spark rebellion. Its too tempting to make him a good foil, so instead I suggest a dark knight who grew greedy and was ousted by his strong emotions for power.

Nice outline!

I'd give the manor its own chapter. It's probably the smallest domain to receive Gazetteer treatment yet. (can't wait for the Aggarath gaz!) But it's central to this cluster, especially if you follow Mangrum's proposed ideas.

I would add Theokos, The Red Wolf, Addar, and possibly the Abbot of Forenoon Abbey to the Who's Doomed section.

(I might include Aurora and Alexi Shadowborn here, but unless there's a dread possibility for one or both of them leaving their crystal coffins, there's little need for stats.)

Also, should mention the Dolmens as a site of interest in the Forest.




I'm kicking myself for not seeing the gryphon hill map before running my Nidala adventure. I made up my own group of non-canon towns, as seen on my map here:
http://themistway.com/pics/nidala.jpg

On the bright side, only Gryphon Hill's Oniere and my Glenmurron are similarly located. And my Glenmurron is a smoking ruin, destroyed by Banemaw, so if the authors wanted to use both, it's possible. (I would be flattered if they did, but I wouldn't be hurt if they didn't.)

I also named the other three rivers, so you're welcome to take those names as well.

Note, however, that you'll probably be wanting a new map, not either of ours, to reflect the Phantasmal Forest growing around the edges of Nidala, as Mangrum proposed.

Jester of the FoS wrote:The Rogue Knight.

The Black Knight!

"...the device on his shield was a young oak-tree pulled up by the roots,
with the Spanish word Desdichado..."

Creepy Old Woman wrote:ETA: I'm not too fond of the idea of Thokos. To me, a darklord shouldn't need someone to abet her to become more evil. Elena should be "voluntarily" evil. Having Thokos to push her over the limit seems like an easy and rather contrived plot device. Kinda like Azalin's nastiness turning out to be the mastermind of his valet - it feels like a cop out. I'd rather see Thokos as her willing accomplice rather than manipulator.

The way I plan to cast Theokos in my campaign is as an extension of Ebonbane, not the DP's. In this spin, his purpose is not to push her further into evil, but rather to keep her convinced that she's doing good. Her weekly "moments of doubt" on her midnight ride into exhaustion might have caused her to repent by now if it wasn't for Theokos's constant reassurances. The DP's don't care about her any more or less than any other darklord. If she were to truly repent, so be it, she'd cease being darklord-worthy and they'd let her go. But to Ebonbane, it's personal, and he wants to keep her close, shackled to him.

So Theokos's job is to find rationalizations for her sins, justify her atrocities in the light of serving Belenus, and provide her plausible deniability to her own conscience when he does the occasional dirty work so she doesn't have to. He maintains the status quo, rather than eggs her on.


Just my view on it...

Jester of the FoS wrote:I'd have Elena founding a new knightly order (a round table?) but, due to her curse, she only keeps those without strong feelings to the cause. It's a knighthood of disenfranchised nobles, apathetic warriors, and cold-hearted killers.

Isn't Elena's curse specifically attuned to strong emotions about her? If these knights were passionate about their beliefs and/or their own crimes, yet indifferent to Elena herself, I'd think that'd be enough to protect them from her emotion-sensing ability. They wouldn't have to be devoid of all feelings, just devoted to the nation or faith in the abstract rather than the current head of church/state.

The knight from Dragonslayer, who went behind the king's back to foil the princess's rescue because "the kingdom needs this sacrifice", springs to mind as that sort of callous jerk. He didn't hate the princess or the king: he just wrote their needs off as irrelevant.



(Rats! Now I've reminded everybody what an old fogey I am, to remember that movie.... )

Indeed, Elena's knights wouldn't be a bunch of careless noblemen and warriors, but a group of men who do not care about her at all. Talk about leading a force like this!

...and perhaps the crime of the Rogue Knight (Let's call him... say... "Desdichado") was tied to this curse: He wasn't evil per se. On the contrary, he was the best of the Knights (ala Lancelot), and a strong arm against evil in Elena's eyes. Perhaps she was starting to have feelings for him, and perhaps he started developing feelings towards Elena in return... And then, the curse took hold.

Imagine Elena faithhold's despair as she perceives her most loyal and beloved knight's descent into darkness, and the strong reactions she would have. She would try to save him, but she would push the poor desdichado to the limits, making his feelings clash with his beliefs, and somehow forcing him to betray everything he believed in, earning him the right to become a Dark Knight once she gets "forced" to kill him.

I guess that would add to the "courtly love" theme of arthuric literature (And to the tragedy associated with it)

I'd still prefer to see Elena herself as the Dark Knight. The idea of having a female Dark Knight sounds awesome...

Mmmmmm... And what if Desdichado is not a man???

A good parallel to this not so good Knightly order of Eleni is a famous companion that Jeanne d'Arc (Eleni's inspiration) had: Gilles de Ray or Bluebeard (not the Darklord) as he would be known in subsequent tales.

PS: this is a Gaz I'm looking forward to. Go Frat go (Yes even Dru).

Rafael wrote:

Jester of the FoS wrote:The Rogue Knight.

The Black Knight!

"...the device on his shield was a young oak-tree pulled up by the roots,
with the Spanish word Desdichado..."

I'd avoid "Black Knight" for the... er... humorous amputation conotation.

WolfKook wrote:Mmmmmm... And what if Desdichado is not a man???

Oh, please, can't we keep even one female darklord in the setting, who's looking for a monogamous, socially-respectable heterosexual relationship?

Jester of the FoS wrote:I'd avoid "Black Knight" for the... er... humorous amputation conotation.

Then again, *The Dark Knight* is already taken...

What about calling him "The Black Sluggard", then, if we want to keep with Scott analogies?

WolfKook wrote:Mmmmmm... And what if Desdichado is not a man???

Easy, Wolfie. Last person who brought up that question hasn't recovered from the trauma yet...

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Oh, please, can't we keep even one female darklord in the setting, who's looking for a monogamous, socially-respectable heterosexual relationship?

Sorry. I got a little carried away in my desire for having a female death knight. But the rest of the story would still be interesting, I guess...

Rafael wrote:Easy, Wolfie. Last person who brought up that question hasn't recovered from the trauma yet...

Well, Roti's rolling eyes had that "ouch" effect, but I guess it's nothing so serious, amigo.

a couple of tiny details about previous posts:

i) it is not Morogoth, but Morgoroth
and
ii) about the map that gonzoron posted. canon info from the islands of terror indicates that the majority of the settlements in Nidala lie in a 10-mile radius around Touraine. Given the fact that Elena frequently visits most of the villages in the domain in search for evil, the centralized population makes sense.

Any ideas on that false history thing?

regards,
R