Darklords of the New Age: Comments thread

[Igor the Henchman]

I dig the ship. A horrific villain, a unique dungeon-like environment, a cool "big reveal" potential. I think I'd give this my vote in a pinch. My only small complaint regards the use of the word count. I think the background section could convey the same information in half as many words - leaving more "Current Sketch" space to better flesh out his ongoing modus operandi and related adventure hooks. Maybe get him subtly involved in outer world politics. But that's just me splitting hairs, really.

[Checco]

Thank you for sharing your ideas, and I recognize that your word-count-limit might not be doing them the justice they require.

Guendalina Paganelli and Amedeo Gentileschi, Darklords of Oriebo - Again, as others have mentioned, there is a huge gulf of information around this Call, which I think was explained as a result of the limited space. However, I would say that Amedeo's descent just... does not ring at all right to me. Guendalina has delved into darker elements of her family's already dark heritage, while Amedeo has resisted his until no one believes him, then he goes crazy and starts riots? Was that "vicious grin that was not his" something that Guendalina "unlocked" using her magic, some rite to try to bring him closer to her? A twisted wedding gift - "share this part of my life with me"? If it is a hex that brough out this "vicious grin that was not his", is that why an exorcism drove him away? I also don't see what role this "Fiammetta" plays. The wording is confusing, I think.

It seems like you have a couple who grew apart despite genuine fondness for one another, and the consequences plunged their town into chaos because they weren't available to curb it. Personally, I would remove a lot of the vampiric elements and play up more of the Montague and Capulet angle - two rival families pinning a future peace on their children, only for the children to screw it up both by actually loving one another -and- pursuing the same obsessions that drove the families (and town) to the brink of chaos.



Astylos, Darklord of Felsinea - I liked this one the best, but I don't see a reason for the Darklord to be a mythical creature. That, however, is my own prejudice - I always want to simplify. Human evil is far more intriguing to me. I really like the idea of someone studying philosophy and "seeding" the bright minds around him with insanity in the hopes of puzzling out THE ANSWER. I'd view him almost as a cross between the itinerant bum-philosopher of Socrates and the dottering dean or professor at a prestigious college or university. He's not concerned with morality (potentially the very flaw in his thinking preventing him from finding his answer), and has found a way to compel his assistants, his students, his symposia attendees to fixate on a problem or question - until they go mad. As they lose their rationality but remain fixated, he reads their minds or draws off their innovations - hints of epiphany, but never enough for him to string the answer together out of the pieces gleaned.

I also like the idea of a labyrinth under the city, perhaps under his college, where he goes to pace, walk, and wander while thinking - collating and sifting through the hints he has. Even if someone (the heroes) figure out that he's the source of this madness and manage to track him to this "lair", I think the twisting tunnels could be an excellent metaphor for his mind or thought processes, and could be a good combination-punch to throw at someone along with a hallucination, confusion, or mind-maze style spell.



Baccio di Albanera and Chiara di Albanera, Darklords of Casteldebole - I understand some of the concerns others have voiced in this. I suppose one of mine is that the scale seems "too big". I would recommend reducing the Duchies of Saliceto and Roverino to the families of Saliceto and Roverino - again, a bit in that Montague and Capulet, or Hatfield and McCoy. I also understand the concerns about having Chiara as the Darklord, when Baccio seems much more fitting. Another concern is that the circles Chiara moves in are noble. A pretty face is for a mistress, but you marry for politics.

I also don't see the role of her scream-ability - it seems like the first time she saw blood, that would kick off a city-wide bloodbath.

Thinking it over, I kind of like the idea that Baccio is incapacitated. Age, stress, insanity, and his creation have driven him to catatonia. Chiara runs on hate, but might not know why. Moreover, she runs on hate, but employs "love". She seduces the Dukes, and I assume they feel love for her, as do the common people (considered "a jewel"), but the -opposite- of those feelings power her. How does that affect her? As an artificial creature, can she reconcile that - or even recognize it? Does she need to cause pain or suffering, or feel someone's hatred (at her or near her?) to survive?

Returning the focus to Baccio, what if Chiara isn't the only golem he's created, but rather that he has puppets working at both Dukes - his modus operandi might be seducto-bots that get close and then cause strife, heartbreak, etc. He hates creating the golems, invests them with that hate, they go forth, infiltrate the Dukes' households, and then - well, engage in the behaviour that make soap-operas so popular.

I don't see them easily "sharing" the conspiracy/Darklord's mantle. I think if you elevate one, you kind of have to lower the other to the status of onlooker or tool.

Yes, the word-count-limit was indeed painful (though as I already written it was hardly avoidable), and to put it simply, it forced me and Sorti to cut or skip large amounts of informations, the result is that several things were not explained or not clear to read.

I'll resume the most important (and quick to write) here before continuing:


Guendalina/Amedeo: The 'Call' isn't mandatory for anyone, it does not bend one's free will and if followed, shrinks the gap between human and nosferatu stats and powers. The ancestors haven't more power over a receptacle than the classic 'little devil on the shoulder'.

Fiammetta is the alias Guendalina uses when she poses to be a prostitute (one reason why she hates them so much), they are not two different persons, she masks and disguises herself to be able to exercise power upon the Bloodhounds secret society, something she can do in part once she seduced one of the high-ranked which eventually fell in love with her.

Everything about what happens with the Call, what it does, what precisely happened when Amedeo decided to suicide had to be cut, plainly and simply, as well as many other particulars who would have maybe made the reader think that using 'just' two rival families as theme could have left gaps.

Amedeo resisting the Call until the end, however, will be definitely decided, really too many suggested that.


Astylos: Not much to say, since we could write basically all we wanted; the choice of a mythical creature instead of an human was in part for cosmetic choice and to allow the knowledge the PCs will toy with to have roots into something much more advanced than human society, like a once greatly advanced sphinxes' one.

For the rest, the idea of the evil philosopher without morality was exactly what we wanted to try, I'm happy to see its 'metaphore' was read behind the lines.


Baccio/Chiara: Golems have one weakness, so we chose blood to punish Chiara ironically; her 'Song of Discord'-like screaming is much less messy than the text suggests , to tell it simply it has a very small range and it's one convenient reason to keep Chiara secluded, as we wanted her to be.

Chiara cannot feel love, and the reason is why she considered men unworthy to be requited and more fitting as tools to free her from her creator. The fact she does not want to think she might be wrong because it would hurt her ego (after all, she thinks to have and deserve a power greater than any normal woman) keeps her feelings' status quo.

She needs hate to remain what she is, the goddess Discordia wanted her to be such (homicide and violent acts around her city, because of her, are enough, if received on regular basis).


Again, I have to say a lot of details were cut, and again regarding the 'too big' scale, but it's not like we had much choice (save for Felsinea, the other 2 domains would have required at least 3k words to make all fit, and were rewritten many times after having decided what to say and what not).

By the way, we wanted to make DLs blend with the society, but that means they have to hide the human population what they truly are or be shunned, something that easily may lead to think they worked better on a 'smaller scale', though we equipped all of them with enough powers to mantain their disguise and exercise power over a standard-sized domain almost as a Malocchio or a Drakov.

Mine is not a rant, merely an explanation.

Besides, I think Sorti will be happy to make his own reply, too.

[Nathan of the FoS]

So...I guess we are allowed to give more detail on darklords, and identify ourselves as the authors?

I wrote the Annaes/Black Dragon submission, and I'm interested to hear what you guys have thought of it so far. I'm a little at a loss (heh) about the Lost comparison...I've only seen snippets of the show, and as far as I know the plane was not actually guided by a psychopathic artificial intelligence? The precedent that comes to my mind is more HAL-9000, although, amusingly enough, I didn't even think of that until I had put the finishing touches on the article. Considering that it is supposed to be a Spelljammer domain, the spelljamming ship is kinda not optional--plus the use of helm technology makes it much easier to explain how one could generate an "artificial" intelligence in control of a ship. Otoh, if one is dead set against spelljamming in Ravenloft, then your work-around is quite effective, Pale.

I see what you mean about the name, DB; but then, in the context of an adventure in Annaes, the name Black Dragon would actually be applied most commonly to a crime family. I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

It's always hard to know how to balance the article, Igor; quite possibly you're right. I'm a sucker for the in-depth backstory, so I focused on that; I figure, plots and plans can be more profitably dealt with in an expanded domain write-up, anyway.

[Pale]

No rant perceived at all - I know I wrote a lot and I hoped I wouldn't come off aggressive or insulting. I certainly don't wish to downplay or devalue your efforts. My comments are purely in the vein of "I don't understand this part." or "Have you considered this aspect?"

I'll confess, reading the original text over, I never even caught that Amedeo had killed himself. I thought he had snapped and simply wandered the city in the guise of the Jesting Spirit - a new identity. Looking over it, I see he jumped from a tower. I just assumed he had taken to the streets.

I'm not entirely clear on the Call, but I'll write that off as my ignorance at work, and my preference for "simplicity".

If Guendalina is already a noble, why does she need to disguise herself as a prostitute to infiltrate the secet society? Why use seduction when she could exercise other forms of power? Or is it not a nobility-based society, but rather a quiet resistance against undead/nosferatus?



As for Astylos, I think you make a good point with the whole notion of "touching something greater/more advanced than yourself" with the mythical creature. I don't think it's a perfect fit (it still raises questions with me), but I think it's a solid choice, thematically speaking. I also like the "titles" you kind of chose for the capital-R Riddles. Riddle of Knowledge, Life, etc.



With Chiara, I'd definitely like to explore a bit how she handles being a creature of hate having to wield love as her tool. Does she find it a delicious irony, or a cruel jest at her expense? There are a lot of different forms of love - there's romantic, but also the general affection the town feels for her. From what you describe, it sounds like she has to keep up a public face that is demure and pleasant, while privately plotting and acting to maximize pain and stress. Sort of like Merteuil in Dangerous Liaisons. You mentioned that Baccio might have to prod the Dukes along, but what happens when the Dukes prod Chiara or Baccio to commit to one or the other? Or is there some enchantment that prevents them? Is there a reason Chiara cannot feel love, or is it just that she hasn't yet (a "father" that hates, suitors who use")?

[Pale]

I don't know if people are allowed to self-identify. I don't even know if the questions I asked were appropriate! I'm bumbling along in the dark - I figure someone will either tell me to cut it out or turn on a light.

I wrote the Annaes/Black Dragon submission, and I'm interested to hear what you guys have thought of it so far. I'm a little at a loss (heh) about the Lost comparison...I've only seen snippets of the show, and as far as I know the plane was not actually guided by a psychopathic artificial intelligence? The precedent that comes to my mind is more HAL-9000, although, amusingly enough, I didn't even think of that until I had put the finishing touches on the article. Considering that it is supposed to be a Spelljammer domain, the spelljamming ship is kinda not optional--plus the use of helm technology makes it much easier to explain how one could generate an "artificial" intelligence in control of a ship. Otoh, if one is dead set against spelljamming in Ravenloft, then your work-around is quite effective, Pale.

I want to be sure that you're aware that my -personal- preferences (ie, avoiding spelljamming in Ravenloft) are precisely that - personal. I don't want to suggest that your idea is wrong or incomplete or anything of the sort. I think creativity is probably at the heart of what happens here, and that you'd do it one way and I another only means we have different approaches. I hope that by sharing my perspective it might offer you a way to enrich your own.

As for Lost, well, I'm not a big fan so I'm hoping it's not a matter of "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like nails". The boat and the eternal custodian is what suggested it to me, though going through it I also see a lot of elements like the "crashed spaceship takes over small town" trope.

I see what you mean about the name, DB; but then, in the context of an adventure in Annaes, the name Black Dragon would actually be applied most commonly to a crime family. I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

I think anyone sitting down to a table to play DnD who then hears "The Black Dragon" might jump to their own conclusions - but I think that subverting their expectations and surprising the group might be part of the fun. "It's never what you think it is."

[whalejudge]

:grumble: a spelljamming helm is not a hat.

[Sorti]

Besides, I think Sorti will be happy to make his own reply, too.

Well, I think you wrote everything . About Astylos somebody likes him also because he's a sphinx and somebody likes him even if he's a sphinx, I'm just happy he got so much love .

Or is it not a nobility-based society, but rather a quiet resistance against undead/nosferatus?

Precisely. It's a society as in "secret society", not as in "high society" .

With Chiara, I'd definitely like to explore a bit how she handles being a creature of hate having to wield love as her tool. Does she find it a delicious irony, or a cruel jest at her expense? There are a lot of different forms of love - there's romantic, but also the general affection the town feels for her. From what you describe, it sounds like she has to keep up a public face that is demure and pleasant, while privately plotting and acting to maximize pain and stress. Sort of like Merteuil in Dangerous Liaisons.

Chiara feels all of those people lust over her, maybe admire her, but nobody actually loves her for what she is. Of course she hides what she is, so it's quite impossible to satisfy her standards, but she might not be too wrong anyway: people see her more as a prize or a sex object than a person with feelings. She decided all of this people don't deserve her mercy and she just uses them as tools only to be used, as they only want to use her.

Still not all of them were bad and selfish, and she became worst than her admirers in this selfishness and made even the honest ones suffer; thus she was cursed to never find the love she craves for, and nobody will really make her feel that precious warmth in her (literally ) heart of stone.

You mentioned that Baccio might have to prod the Dukes along, but what happens when the Dukes prod Chiara or Baccio to commit to one or the other? Or is there some enchantment that prevents them?

Baccio promised that the Duke that defeats the other will marry Chiara, so until the war is ended with a clear winner, she's commited to both and neither.

Is there a reason Chiara cannot feel love, or is it just that she hasn't yet (a "father" that hates, suitors who use")?

We wrote that her nature prevents her from feeling love (but tragically not from desiring it), but maybe it would be nicer if nothing except herself prevented her from feeling positive feelings, she just thinks nobody is pure and honest with her, so she never found anybody to fall in love with... it could make her more evil/selfish and less unlucky/tragic.
I'll have to think about it, thanks for the input!


About the Black Dragon I like it as a "HAL9000 in RL", but sorry, I can't see Ravenloft and Spelljamming to meet without forsaking the gothic horror theme.. I have problems figuring Dracula in a domain and magotechnology & spacefarers in another.

It's not against the Black Dragon per se, which is quite nicely done, I would have the same problem with Planescape: once you saw abishais drinking at the Smoldering Corpse Bar probably the Whistling Fiend wouldn't prompt fear and horror checks to you, if you understand what I mean.

[Checco]

No rant perceived at all - I know I wrote a lot and I hoped I wouldn't come off aggressive or insulting. I certainly don't wish to downplay or devalue your efforts. My comments are purely in the vein of "I don't understand this part." or "Have you considered this aspect?"

If Guendalina is already a noble, why does she need to disguise herself as a prostitute to infiltrate the secet society? Why use seduction when she could exercise other forms of power? Or is it not a nobility-based society, but rather a quiet resistance against undead/nosferatus?


With Chiara, I'd definitely like to explore a bit how she handles being a creature of hate having to wield love as her tool. Does she find it a delicious irony, or a cruel jest at her expense? There are a lot of different forms of love - there's romantic, but also the general affection the town feels for her. From what you describe, it sounds like she has to keep up a public face that is demure and pleasant, while privately plotting and acting to maximize pain and stress. Sort of like Merteuil in Dangerous Liaisons. You mentioned that Baccio might have to prod the Dukes along, but what happens when the Dukes prod Chiara or Baccio to commit to one or the other? Or is there some enchantment that prevents them? Is there a reason Chiara cannot feel love, or is it just that she hasn't yet (a "father" that hates, suitors who use")?

First of all I assure that nothing you wrote was perceived as aggressive and insulting, even remotely.

Guendalina: She is forced to play a role different from a noble's when approaching the Bloodhounds because they are literally 'out to exterminate vampires', and her nature would undoubtely be revealed, if she spent time with them.

The only reason why she gained the trust of the high-ranked Bloodhound is that she confessed to him to carry the vampiric disease, after infection from a ruthless customer, and her desire is to cooperate for the destruction of all vampires in Oriebo; she managed to make him fell in love with her, but she actually never met any other member of the Bloodhounds, asking her 'lover' to keep her existance a secret, because many others in his society would burn anyone carrying the vampiric disease on sight; furthermore, members of the Bloodhounds do know magic, so while she could simply Charm him, she had to resort to mundane means of seduction to avoid others suspect of him being under the control of another.

Unfortunately for her, having to hide her true nature results in being often 'shorthanded' when it comes to minions, and everytime she has to solve something which would spread informations about vampires (which must remain a legend for the population), she cannot use the city guards at her disposal as Podestà, but she must resort to manipulation.


Chiara: Hell, I'd really like to be able to write precisely her standing, her thoughts, etc. .

She finds her nature a cruel jest perpetrated by both her hated creator Baccio and the Goddess Discordia herself. It's as you wrote: she keeps a public image of a respectable woman but she's cruel inside, just as the Marquise de Merteuil.

The dukes feel more victim of her love towards Chiara than inclined to prod her or Baccio, mainly for the high power level of the golem's seduction, but also because they are afraid being too bold might cause Baccio to choose the rival as suitor.

Chiara could feel love, but only once she accepted the fact a worthy man can indeed exist.

Rodomonte would be one of the few which could persuade her, as he's a selfless lonely fighter whose efforts are rooted in the love for his friends and fellow citizens, though he'd hardly requite Chiara, ironically, as he thinks her to be one of the reasons of the endless war (Chiara seeing him once and her later doubts had to be cut from the background).

Rodomonte (which is a sort of gothic Zorro) is also the 'philosophycal opposite' of Baccio, since he was wounded from the war, too, but he didn't react in a way which would have created more innocents to suffer. When he was a child, mercenaries kidnapped him to get a ransom from his wealthy father, and cut his tongue and sent it to his family to make sure they would have paid. The ransom was paid, the boy returned to Edera, but he swore to put an end to the war, by making the dukes fail ruining all their plans (the result is that Baccio is a DL and he is not ).

If Chiara knew this, she'd fall in love with him immediately, but he's just a tormented soul, a tragic hero which could see her only as a spoiled noble gathering favor for her own interests.

*******

While the contest suggested to make descriptions more general than rules-oriented, I regret we went too far (and not because of word-count), describing too much background and too few salient powers and their effects, so in the end the reader does not have enough to quantify the DLs' power and influence upon the domain.

[DocBeard]

I see what you mean about the name, DB; but then, in the context of an adventure in Annaes, the name Black Dragon would actually be applied most commonly to a crime family. I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

Well, maybe, but even that is because they want people to think of dragons when they think of the family. I see what you are building up to, though, a sort of, "No, foolish heroes, I am the Black Dragon...!" reveal. I just dunno if it's more trouble than its worth.

[Igor the Henchman]

WolfKook has to be away from the keyboard for the next couple of days, which is why I'm briefly filling in. Today we meet that devilishly depraved duo Comte Charles Emmanuel de Marbeau and Marquise Alessandra de Saches.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I'm glad to see more info on Alessandra's curse. I have mixed feelings about this one. I know it was based off Dangerous Liasions (sp), but it feels a little too similar to Ivan and Ivana's situation (two hedonistic ex-friends whose curses are part of the reason they're now at each other's throats) for my tastes. I'm sorry, that's just how I feel.

[Manofevil]

However, to the point... I don't like something so far-out-fantastical as a spelljammer ship showing up in Ravenloft. I personally don't think it works well with the gothic environment - despite the fact that an "alien ship crash lands and takes over a small town" story could work in a lot of ways. I think Lovecraft has done more than a few on that track. But I think the essential story you're trying to tell gets lost in the novelty of the spelljammer ship.

It is my firm belief that RavenLoft is far too enslaved to the idea of gothicism. The idea of a demiplane built around curses has always been one of my favorite parts of RavenLoft. I see no reason why it should be limited beyond the parameters of Dungeons and Dragons from which it was spawned. I also always liked the fact that RavenLoft could reach into any gaming world to snatch up prospects. I always thought that bridging mechanisms like Spelljammer and RavenLoft were the gutsiest moves that the creators of DnD ever made. I also liked the fact that they reached into their own canon gaming worlds and set the example. It made me sick when they shut it all down.
It is an established fact that there are way too few non-human DarkLords in RavenLoft. It's been beaten to death and then to undeath on threads just like this. Put simply, we need more rule-breakers like this. Something to expand RavenLoft's horizons.
All that said, Your last point has some validity. Something like this has to be done just right to work in RavenLoft. Does this thing launch itself into the air frequently? If so, where does it land? and how does it affect the land around it?
Also, we again have no idea what specificly the Black Dragon did to attract the attention of the mists. Who did it hurt? How did it hurt them? and does it continue to hurt them or has it moved on to other victims?
I remember an episode of Dr. Who where the Doctor finds a very large spaceship filled with people on a jungle planet. These people have been repairing this ship for generations and are working towards the day of embarkation. The Doctor angrily confronts the leaders accuses them of wasting the lives of all their people in endless procedure. The leaders tell him the secret they've kept for generations: no one knows how to pilot the ship. Having reread the rest of this realms descriptions, this sounds, crudely, like the type of people the Black Dragon is surrounded by.
I definitely like the direction in which this is going but it's definitely going to need more fleshing out before it's truly 'loft-worthy. If this is again the fault of the word count or some other contest limitation, then I apologise in advance.

[Manofevil]

Re Charles and Alessandra
Not bad. Being a fan of gothic erotic literature as well as gothic horror, I have to say I like this little combination of the two. That being said, this does feel a little too much like Ivan and Ivana. Trouble is, I'm not exactly sure what you could do to change that without losing the 'Dangerous Liasons' feel. Keep working on it.

[whalejudge]

Um. Bad boy, bad girl. I'm not seeing their activities as worthy of DLship.

[NykylaiHellray]

I actually really like the darklord spelljamming ship, as it adds a new dimension to ravenloft, and makes me think event horizon slightly.