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Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:43 pm
by DocBeard
Really the average Barovian peasant's going to leap under a table if someone says, "Say, why is Count Strahd still alive anyway? That doesn't make sense.". Its the sort of question that even a decent ruler would take the wrong way, let alone Strahd. I'm an illiterate Barovian farmer who spends his nights hiding in terror from any ominous noises outside of my house, I've got other worries than what the Count's calling himself.
I wasn't aware about the Arthaus thing, though, and that's cool. The 3E Ravenloft stuff has a lot of neat things that I'd use if I were patching the setting together for a new edition, to be sure.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:50 pm
by lostboy
Doc's spot on. Bottom line is they don't question what he is, not if they value their (and their daughters) haemoglobin. Never underestimate the human capacity to gloss over and ignore things they just don't want to confront.
But iirc the concept of vampires pretending to be their own descendants first appeared (in RL at least) in Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, with a bit of fiction as a sidebar.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:13 pm
by Scipio
lostboy wrote: Never underestimate the human capacity to gloss over and ignore things they just don't want to confront.
This is so very incredibly true. I think it was best put on Buffy the Vampire Slayer by Giles: "People have a tendency to forget what they can, and rationalize what they can’t."
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:45 pm
by Bluebomber4evr
When I read this thread I remembered this post from some time ago:
vipera aspis wrote:okay, first off Ravenloft will likely come out before some of the others. Just look at the signs, the reprints, the new fiction, the largest underground fan base. Remember in Dragon? That one issue about old worlds with Strahd on the cover? Remember Heros of Horror and EtCR? I'm not saying get your hopes up or anthing but we have a hell of a lot more going for us then Greyhawk. At least with the new fiction our setting is getting TRULY advanced.
Heres a sad story though if you can read between my lines.
I once knew a man named, oh lets say his name is Matric. And Matric around a year ago began submitting his write ups and adventure plots to All flesh must be eaten. Purely to get his name out because they paid but a couple of cents per word. Now once he got his name out he began seeking to write for his favorite world, we will call it "Corvus Corax loft". Learning that doors were closed on writing for this world he began to seek help on writing or helping for a new edition; this new 2(2) edition if you will. Speaking with some of his friends also in the write up field he learned that soon 2(2) write ups would be closed but soon after "Corvus Corax loft" would be open for write ups again because they would need alot of work to be done for them to fill all the areas and positions that are not occupied by "keepers" of the realm whose novels had been reprinted; namely a bard wolfwere from forgotten realms, a well known count and his greyhawk based lich enemy. Thats correct. You understand me. "Corvus Corax loft" would be scraping all but three.
Saddning thought huh. Boy thank the heavens that this never really happened to anyone i know.
Based on the above, and what I've seen of 4e Forgotten Realms, and what they've said they were doing with 4e Dark Sun, I don't have a lot of hope for 4e Ravenloft.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:15 am
by hidajiremi
Bluebomber4evr wrote:Based on the above, and what I've seen of 4e Forgotten Realms, and what they've said they were doing with 4e Dark Sun, I don't have a lot of hope for 4e Ravenloft.
I feel much the same way. Ravenloft 4E brings a tear to my eye, since everything seems to indicate that it's basically going to be D&D Castlevania. And that's fine, no such thing as badwrongfun and all that, but it's really not my cup of tea.
Jeremy Puckett
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:46 am
by Brandi
ewancummins wrote:Or they just think he's a quasi-immortal wizard.
Given the Barovian attitude towards magic (which seems to involve torches, pitchforks, and rope) that wouldn't be much better than finding out he's a vampire.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:12 pm
by Pamela
hidajiremi wrote:Bluebomber4evr wrote:Based on the above, and what I've seen of 4e Forgotten Realms, and what they've said they were doing with 4e Dark Sun, I don't have a lot of hope for 4e Ravenloft.
I feel much the same way. Ravenloft 4E brings a tear to my eye, since everything seems to indicate that it's basically going to be D&D Castlevania. And that's fine, no such thing as badwrongfun and all that, but it's really not my cup of tea.
Jeremy Puckett
What exactly is 'everything'? So far there has been a single announcement with no details apart from it being both a stand-alone game and a campaign setting. It'll be mentioned/appear in the Shadowfell boxed set. That's pretty much the extent of the knowledge that I know, apart from the rumour listed above.
I read Matthew Sernett's
Sunderheart and I really, really liked it. I've enjoyed several other articles he's done and if he's involved in the Ravenloft project, I will be very happy. Ari Marmell has said he plans on chasing up an email he's sent concerning work on Ravenloft; I'd like to hope that he'll get a chance to work on it too.
I expect there'll be a lot of changes in the coming edition. Whether it goes forward, backward or stays the same, someone's going to complain. But then how many people are perfectly happy with the 'canon'
exactly as it is? Has never tweaked the domains or NPC's stats and powers? Or completely knocked out a domain or two?
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:56 pm
by HuManBing
Brandi wrote:ewancummins wrote:Or they just think he's a quasi-immortal wizard.
Given the Barovian attitude towards magic (which seems to involve torches, pitchforks, and rope) that wouldn't be much better than finding out he's a vampire.
Very true.
Also, "quasi-immortal wizard" is not incompatible with "Strahd is human". He's just a human, quasi-immortal wizard.
...rather like... Azalin!
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:23 pm
by Bluebomber4evr
Pamela wrote:I expect there'll be a lot of changes in the coming edition. Whether it goes forward, backward or stays the same, someone's going to complain. But then how many people are perfectly happy with the 'canon' exactly as it is? Has never tweaked the domains or NPC's stats and powers? Or completely knocked out a domain or two?
I wouldn't call "scrapping every domain/darklord but 3" a "tweak." There's a difference between making a change here and there and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. And the general trend with 4th edition relaunches so far is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:29 pm
by Joël of the FoS
I'm also on the side of those that say let's have the thing in hand before we pass any kind of judgement.
We'll see what they do with it before 1) praising it, 2) say it's not our taste but some things could be salvaged, or 3) where did we put the tar and feather?
Otherwise, we stay in the speculations ... but I really think it will have a Gamma World domain, or a domain with the phantom of Elminster, or ...
Joël
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:09 pm
by HuManBing
Joël of the FoS wrote:We'll see what they do with it before [...] 2) say it's not our taste but some things could be salvaged [.]
It's not to my taste (I use GURPS, not d20) but some things could be salvaged (the fluff may be worth paying attention to... but I can get that for free by just reading what you guys post about it).
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:28 am
by Jester of the FoS
Bluebomber4evr wrote:Based on the above, and what I've seen of 4e Forgotten Realms, and what they've said they were doing with 4e Dark Sun, I don't have a lot of hope for 4e Ravenloft.
I didn't like the Realms changes but understood why they did them. Most were a direct, measure response to long standing criticism aimed at the Realms. I think they went too far and I had problems with the books and presentation, but understand the why.
Eberron and Dark Sun... I have heard nothing but praise about those two settings in 4e. They kept Eberron the same as it's initial release but tweaked it for the new races and content, and didn't advance the timeline or force in metaplot from the novels or adventures. And for Dark Sun, they just went back to the original core material skipping the controversial novel line and timeline update but not denying those events happened. That's a little like publishing a Dragonlance setting set during the War of the Lance, it's really a best-of period.
Really, after the respect they showed Dark Sun and Eberron, I'm more hopeful they'd do Ravenloft well and really research the game.
I've said elsewhere (my blog on the WotC site) that Ravenloft would have been perfect with the three-book format: player book, DM/monster book, and adventure. I feel the hype for Gamma World was so positive they wanted to do something else like that.
It also recently occurred to me that a side-effect of products with physical components (Gamma World and its cards) are much harder to pirate and cannot just be slipped into the Character Builder. I skipped Martial Power 2, PHB3, and will be skipping Psionic Power because 80% of the content is covered in DDI.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:57 am
by Pamela
Bluebomber4evr wrote:I wouldn't call "scrapping every domain/darklord but 3" a "tweak."
I would call that a "rumour".
Bluebomber4evr wrote:There's a difference between making a change here and there and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. And the general trend with 4th edition relaunches so far is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Eberron seems to have stayed the same. Dark Sun, I believe (I'm not a fan and so haven't been paying attention), got a retcon to 2e. Major changes and a time jump in the Forgotten Realms. I'm not sure what 'trend' you can pick up from three different approaches to three settings.
You don't like 4e Dark Sun; sorry it has disappointed you. I like the changes to 4e Forgotten Realms; if anything, I think they saved the baby from drowning in all that damned bathwater. However I find discussions about babies and bathwater to be less a matter of discussion of essentialities and more of taste.
But let's leave Ravenloft be till there's something to base argument on. The Shadowfell box set will probably be a good indicator and possibly future Domains of Dread article. There's a free Ravenloft scenarios on Monday which will be open to the public. Let's see what that says (if anything).
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:18 am
by Bluebomber4evr
I didn't comment on Eberron because I know very little about the setting and don't follow it.
Forgotten Realms...I never liked the setting but I felt the 4th edition version butchered it.
Dark Sun, well it's not a matter of like or dislike. I'm just pointing out that retconning all the way to the original boxed set is rather extreme, and it's not unreasonable to think they may do the same thing to Ravenloft. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of taste, of course. I've never been a fan of huge retcons, personally.
Re: Ravenloft is the 2011 Campaign Setting
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:40 am
by Pamela
Bluebomber4evr wrote: I'm just pointing out that retconning all the way to the original boxed set is rather extreme, and it's not unreasonable to think they may do the same thing to Ravenloft. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of taste, of course. I've never been a fan of huge retcons, personally.
That's cool; I can appreciate not liking retcons. Taste, while not objective, is how most of us decide what we do and don't like. There's nothing objective or logical about my dislike of Dark Sun after all.
I could see the possibility that, as Jester had inferred above (I'd missed his post while doing mine - stupid interruptions!
), they could decide to drop domains (maybe even as many as you said) while not officially declaring them no longer in existence. I've been personally wondering if the earlier Domains articles are supposed be domains already linked to Ravenloft or isolated domains, as it is. Marmell's Lonesome Road seemed to suggest that that one at least could SOMETIMES (but not often) lead to other domains and even the Prime Material.
I could see why that would be really annoying to a lot of people. But then you gotta remember that my favourite domain has never received much in-game attention so I'm used to winging it anyway. I've also dropped a
lot of domains along the way. I've personally never seen the need to salvage stuff I consider bad material; there's enough to do as a DM without that. Again, all a matter of my taste.
Anyway, no hard feelings I hope? My intention was never to offend - if I have in any way, I do offer my sincere apologies.