Carnival in Pathfinder

[Ryan Naylor]

I just reread the Moonchild. The third level is the one that changes everything. He'd become a true lycanthrope, gain a hybrid form and would not be affected by the trigger anymore. OTOH he is depicted in hybrid form in The Carnival already. But hybrid forms are always a problem with 2e conversion. Personally I'm torn between giving him one more level in an NPC class to reflect his experience pre-infection, or to increase his moonchild level to 3 to get the hybrid form.

Also I considered the alignment change thing from the prc. It would be interesting to what alignment he had originally. He's N in the Carnival. As Wereleopard's are LE, if he was not N originally he could have been NG or CN or CG. And if we advance him from the supplement the big question is will he pass his saving throw or will he not and become a step closer to LE, which could be NE or LN.

Also he should be noted as a Degenerative Lycanthrope, i.e. he's a Human Afflicted Degenerative Wereleopard War1/Moonchild2. (Apparently with Ryans rules you can have normal wereleopards that only change to beast form on their trigger).

There's no reason why he can't be stuck in hybrid form rather than beast form. That's the strain he has. That has no effect on whether he's afflicted or true, or how many levels in Moonchild he has.

He could be N in human form and LE in beast form as well. As an option.

And yes, he is a degenerate wereleopard. They still exist in my rules.

[Ryan Naylor]

I havn't checked the last NPCs but i think they're all missing an explicit Twisting effect.

A lot of them are; that's because I have trouble adjudicating how strong a game mechanic of an effect the Twisting should have. It seems for some NPCs that it's front and centre (the next Trouper, Amelia is a good example) and for others it's almost non-existent (Raja, for example). If you or anyone else has any suggestions on some guidelines, I'd love to hear them.

While I think the Twisting effects should be noted explicitly (perhaps similar to what I've been doing with Powers checks for the darklords, the effect on CR (and other game effects) needs to be adjudicated on a case-by-case basis. So no easy guidelines, I'm afraid. Fly is a huge change; independence from your master isn't.

[Mortavius]

While I think the Twisting effects should be noted explicitly (perhaps similar to what I've been doing with Powers checks for the darklords, the effect on CR (and other game effects) needs to be adjudicated on a case-by-case basis. So no easy guidelines, I'm afraid. Fly is a huge change; independence from your master isn't.

I like that idea Ryan. I'll have to go back and look at the NPCs I've done and see what I can come up with.

[Mortavius]

Amelia, the Vampiress

Timeline

730 BC: Amelia is born in l’Morai.
739 BC: Amelia tries to run away from her parents (possibly abuse?) and is caught. For her disobedience she is sent to Carnival and the Puppetmaster changes her to have a pair of stunted useless wings sprout from her back to always remind her of her “crime.”
740 BC: Amelia is the first to succumb to the Twisting after Isolde joins Carnival and her wings fill out.
760 BC: Present day.

Twisting: The Twisting has taken Amelia’s stunted wings and grew them into fully-functional appendages.

Base Stats
Str 10, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 14
Racial: +2 Dex
Leveling: +1 Cha
Favored Class: +Skill Ranks

760 BC (Current day stats)
CR 3; XP 800
Human Expert4
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +7; Senses Perception +5

Defense
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
HP 29 (4d8+8)
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +5

Offense
Speed 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (Good)
Melee MW Silver Dagger +4 (1d4, 19-20)
Ranged MW Light Crossbow +7 (1d8, 19-20)

Statistics
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 15
Base Atk +3, CMB +3, CMD 16
Feats Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus (Fly)
Skills Bluff +8, Diplomacy +8, Disguise +6, Escape Artist +7, Fly +14, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Perception +5, Perform (Act) +6
Languages Mordentish, Balok
SQ Silver Tongued (replaced Human trait Skilled)

Equipment
MW Silver Dagger, MW Light Crossbow, Bolts (x10), Potions (Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall)



Amelia doesn't come off as the most interesting Trouper of the bunch. I went through all the classes, and even glanced through all the archetypes I have access to, and the closest thing that I could come up with was the Scout archetype for the Rogue. But there was two problems; #1 that Rogue didn't fit Amelia, and #2 that Scout doesn't really do anything other than give bonuses to hit enemies when moving. Amelia doesn't strike me as a combat character, so I settled with Expert as her class.

One unique aspect of Amelia is she's one of the younger Troupers, at 30 years old.

I haven't worked out her Twisting yet; I'm going to spend some time on that and the other Troupers so far. Obviously it's her wings, but I want to look deeper than that and just codify stuff properly.

[The Giamarga]

Amelia is one of the few original troupers, so rereading the novel could give some insights into her personality.

I like expert for her.

[The Giamarga]

Actually Carnival has him as NG when in human form and LE in hybrid form. I did consider him changing alignment with the levels in PrC, but the check was a Will save DC 15, and he started with a base +5 to his Will saves, resulting in a 50% chance of success. And the next check he would have had to make was base +6 to Will saves, so I just assumed he made them. But you could certainly go the other way with it.

Whoops, I must have been already looking at another trouper sidebar. Yes he's NG/LE. Assuming he made his save is fine of course and perfectly reflects his status as of The Carnival supplement. I tend to overthink/overcomplicate things, but it's an interesting question and imo one more reason why he should stay at Moonchild2. A GM advancing him has to roll the dice and see if maybe he changes alignment.

BTW all these NPCs are excellent. I suggest you compile them into a pdf too after you're done.

[Mortavius]

Thanks Giamarga!

Raja is one of those Troupers where I made a lot of decisions based on a history I inferred or outright made up. So really, my vision of him doesn't have much to back it up except it's what I chose. You could easily have Raja be a more experienced character and have more levels in Warrior or another class before taking up Moonchild. I just chose to have him be an inexperienced youth when he was infected because it felt right to me, but that's about all I have to back it up.

[Mortavius]

So I have gone through the previous Troupers and added a "Twisting" line to each one detailing the changes the effect has wrought upon them. Take a look and tell me what you think.

The Illuminated Man, Wood 'n-Head, and the Hideous Man-Beast were the hardest to come up with.

[Mortavius]

Rereading Raja's sidebar in The Carnival, I note that he "has studied lycanthropy at every opportunity". This could be reflected in a few more ranks in knowledge local (which covers humanoids) or maybe even knowledge arcana (for the magical curse part?).

As mentioned, I chose Knowledge (Nature) as it's a class skill for Moonchildren. Looking at how it works in Pathfinder, there isn't really a Knowledge skill that covers lycanthropes, because the curse only modifiers the subtype of the creature and not the base type, which is what Knowledge skills look at.

However, Knowledge (Nature) does cover Monstrous Humanoids, and as a DM, I would be fine with anyone using Knowledge (Nature) for lycanthropes, because they really fit the definition of "monstrous humanoid."

[Mortavius]

Mister ?

Timeline

746 BC: Carnival arrives in Dementlieu and Isolde collects Mister ? and brings it back to be one of the Troupers.

Twisting: Mister ?’s shallow and dull personality keeps coming to the fore due to the Twisting. No matter who he steals memories from, the loss is temporary as his own nature reasserts itself.

Base Stats
Str 19, Dex 10, Con --, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 4
Dread Golem Template: +4 Dex, +4 Cha

760 BC (Current day stats)
CR 7; XP 3200
Dread Wax Golem
N Medium Construct
Init +6; Senses Low-Light Vision, Darkvision 60 ft., Perception -2

Defense
AC 20, touch 10, flat-footed 20 (+10 Natural)
HP 68 (8d10+20), Regeneration 5 (fire & acid bypass)
Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +0
DR 5/adamantine; Immune Construct traits, Electricity, Cold, Magic
Weakness Fire

Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Melee 2 Slams +12 (2d6+4+memory loss)
Special Attacks Memory Loss (Will DC 15)

Statistics
Str 19, Dex 14, Con --, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 8
Base Atk +8, CMB +12, CMD 24
Feats Ability Focus (Memory Loss), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Disguise)
Skills Disguise +13, Perform (Act) +10
Languages Mordentish
SQ Construct traits

[Mangrum]

Officially, in Pathfinder the correct lore skill for lycanthropes is Knowledge (local), because they're humanoids.

[Mortavius]

Officially, in Pathfinder the correct lore skill for lycanthropes is Knowledge (local), because they're humanoids.

I thought about that Mangrum; do you think that works best? I'm trying to find a good skill to represent his knowledge of lycanthropes; Local just seemed too broad. Like it concerned itself with much more than just lycanthropes.

But I'm totally open on this; if folks think it's better to go with local, I'd love to hear why. Mangrum, as one of the authors of Carnival, I would personally consider it high praise any critique you'd be inclined to give.

[Zilfer]

Officially, in Pathfinder the correct lore skill for lycanthropes is Knowledge (local), because they're humanoids.

I thought about that Mangrum; do you think that works best? I'm trying to find a good skill to represent his knowledge of lycanthropes; Local just seemed too broad. Like it concerned itself with much more than just lycanthropes.

But I'm totally open on this; if folks think it's better to go with local, I'd love to hear why. Mangrum, as one of the authors of Carnival, I would personally consider it high praise any critique you'd be inclined to give.

Besides inventing knew knowledge skills to sink skill points into? Not sure. It's like the people that put in new skills to cover something they think isn't covered already. *shrugs*

Depending on the 'local' knowledge you might be surprised what you might uncover. I would probably limit 'local' to something the domain might know about. xD

[Mangrum]

I thought about that Mangrum; do you think that works best?

Before Paizo eventually clarified it, I was using Knowledge (arcana) myself. Arguably I could have been persuaded to use Knowledge (nature) instead, or perhaps even preferentially. But mechanically speaking, the Knowledge skills are tied to creature types, and lycanthropes are exclusively humanoid, so (local)'s the way to go. I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other, myself.

[Mortavius]

Knowledge (Local) seems to be the preferred consensus among folks here, so let it be.

I've made the changes, and thanks very much for all the feedback everyone. Really happy that folks are interested enough in this stuff to give me their opinions!