Café de Nuit

alhoon wrote:An investigation check with DC 20, to find a buyer after 3-4 days willing to give you 250gp (or even just 50!) for a +1 axe? While a splint mail, shield and sword cost about the same? Isn't that extreme?
Even with advantage from your buddies, a 6th lvl character trained in investigation has about 40% chance to waste 10 days and NOT find a buyer.
Keep in mind that 250gp is about 2 months of wealthy (not aristocratic) lifestyle. Not that much.

You still need to find an aristocrat rich enough that they're going to spend two month's rent on a magic sword they may or may not want.
Also, the 40% isn't that bad. Send the person in the party trained at Investigation out to find it. There's no reason not to.

Plus, this only comes into play IF they want to sell the magic weapon. Which should be pretty rare at level 7. Any uncommon magic item should be a nice perk at that level.
(And the trade of magic items is optional. That's in the price of rarity section. Of course, the prices are explicitly suggestions.)

alhoon wrote: Problem encountered: Uncommon item base price (i.e. sword+1) is 500 gp. FAR from prohibiting.
So... I think I'll bump uncommon permanent item price to 2000gp, rare to 10K, keep very rare to 50K and drop legendary to 250K. I also think I'll bump creation to 50gp/day for uncommon/rare and 100 gp for very rare/legendary.

So, to order a +2 sword (rare), you need to pay 10K + the fees of 200 days for suitable spellcasters + the costs for special materials/locations if needed.

Don't forget to look at the treasure tables to consider the rate gold is gained.

From levels 1-4 you get roughly 10gp per fight (sometimes as low as 5d6 copper, sometimes as high as 1d6 platinum). And from levels 5-10 you get 81gp per encounter.
Assuming one hoard every other level, by the time you hit level 5 you'll have around 850gp and by level 7 you'll have 4000gp. For the party. That's 212gp and 1000gp per PC respectively.

So if the newly level 7 party pools all their resources from all their adventures they can buy two +1 weapons? Does that seem about right?
Would that just be for magic items or all uncommon items? Should a hat of disguise, broom of flying, or cloak of elvenkind be 2000 gp?

It's about 2-3 hordes per level for a party, not every other level.
And that's from adventures. When you get a barony you'll be bringing in like 1000gp/month easily.

Broom of flying should be more expensive actually. Is it listed as uncommon? It should be rare.

Now that I actually own the book and have perused it, I've noticed that they've broken the "cardinal sin" of Ravenloft design: the 5e DMG defines the Dark Powers as "beings of the Shadowfell" who constructed the Demiplane of Dread as "a prison."

Does this mean that Lord of the Necropolis is canon now?

What? Where is that? I didn't see it

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Now that I actually own the book and have perused it, I've noticed that they've broken the "cardinal sin" of Ravenloft design: the 5e DMG defines the Dark Powers as "beings of the Shadowfell" who constructed the Demiplane of Dread as "a prison."

I personally don't have a problem with that; 5E is breaking a lot of purist conventions.

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Now that I actually own the book and have perused it, I've noticed that they've broken the "cardinal sin" of Ravenloft design: the 5e DMG defines the Dark Powers as "beings of the Shadowfell" who constructed the Demiplane of Dread as "a prison."

I personally don't have a problem with that; 5E is breaking a lot of purist conventions.

I don't know about "breaking purist conventions", if anything, they seem to be trying to please everyone.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with them doing that, either, as that's very similar to what I had in mind for the Dark Powers. However, actually defining them instead of leaving it to individual DMs is a big deal any way you look at it.

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Now that I actually own the book and have perused it, I've noticed that they've broken the "cardinal sin" of Ravenloft design: the 5e DMG defines the Dark Powers as "beings of the Shadowfell" who constructed the Demiplane of Dread as "a prison."

Eh... that's not much of a definition. We know it's a prison. You can't get out (easily). We know it's in the shadowfell (nowadays). The only real "definition" there is that they are "beings". (I.e., not a single being, and not a non-incarnated force of nature or somesuch.)

Does this mean that Lord of the Necropolis is canon now?

Nope. In that book, they were trapped beings that wanted to use the darklords as stepping-stones to freedom or something like that....

Ehh... weren't the DPowers always defined as mysterious entities that use Ravenloft as a prison? The "definition" here is that these mysterious entities are allegedly from Shadowfell, although that could be taken as "they're from Ravenloft which is in Shadowfell"

The LoNecropolis defined them as evil entities from the negative energy plane that wanted to use Ravenloft as a stepping stone to get in the prime material.

Jester of the FoS wrote: You still need to find an aristocrat rich enough that they're going to spend two month's rent on a magic sword they may or may not want.

Weeeeeeeeeell... I disagree on that and here's why:

250gp cost to equip one heavy infantry soldier with splint mail, shield and sword. 500 gp are some not-that-expensive jewelry. It's not much.
Also, there are markets for armor costing 1500gp, saying "500 gp items" are too expensive to have a market is... :/

Now, the price inconsistencies:
A splint+1 is cheaper than a non magical plate armor.
A scale mail +1 is cheaper than a non magical half-plate armor
The way prices are, with +1 items costing +100gp to +500gp, if you can't afford 750gp for a half plate, you can get the same protection from a magical scale armor for lower price.
Getting 1/10th of the price on a +1 chain mail? That's ~60gp, which is cheaper than a nonmagical chain mail.
Getting 1/4th of the price for a +1 breastplate? Cheaper than a nonmagical breast plate.
etc

So, you have a bunch of people that have 10+ armored people in their employ that wouldn't be interested to get a sword for themselves or their champion. It just defies logic for so useful items as magic weapons and armors to be as affordable as a warhorse or a moderately expensive piece of jewelry and still, to not be able to find a buyer in a city in 10 days to give you 1/10th of the price.

It also defies logic that the investigation DC check (DC 20) to push a +1 sword worth 500gp is the same as to push a +3 sword worth 50000gp.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Now that I actually own the book and have perused it, I've noticed that they've broken the "cardinal sin" of Ravenloft design: the 5e DMG defines the Dark Powers as "beings of the Shadowfell" who constructed the Demiplane of Dread as "a prison."

Eh... that's not much of a definition. We know it's a prison. You can't get out (easily). We know it's in the shadowfell (nowadays). The only real "definition" there is that they are "beings". (I.e., not a single being, and not a non-incarnated force of nature or somesuch.)

Actually the 5e DMG doesn't say that Ravenloft is in the Shadowfell. It says it can be reached through the Shadowfell. It implies that the setting is a separate plane (actually it says that each darklord's domain is an individual demiplane, but it's still implying that it is separate from the Shadowfell). While saying that the Dark Powers are "beings" and "from the Shadowfell" is still vague, it's more defined than any previous Ravenloft publication has had.

Does this mean that Lord of the Necropolis is canon now?

Nope. In that book, they were trapped beings that wanted to use the darklords as stepping-stones to freedom or something like that....

Ah, okay. I've never read it.

alhoon wrote:It also defies logic that the investigation DC check (DC 20) to push a +1 sword worth 500gp is the same as to push a +3 sword worth 50000gp.

It also defies logic that the uber wealthy merchant becomes harder to find as you increase in level.

Jester of the FoS wrote:

alhoon wrote:It also defies logic that the investigation DC check (DC 20) to push a +1 sword worth 500gp is the same as to push a +3 sword worth 50000gp.

It also defies logic that the uber wealthy merchant becomes harder to find as you increase in level.

Hmm? What do you mean? It actually becomes somewhat easier since your investigation increases and then your persuation roll increases, but that's because you're better at finding these people, not because it's actually easier.

IMO it should be investigation DC 15 for uncommon (the 2000gp ones), DC 20 for rare and DC 25 for very rare.

alhoon wrote:IMO it should be investigation DC 15 for uncommon (the 2000gp ones), DC 20 for rare and DC 25 for very rare.

And, voila, it is so in any game you run.

Especially in 5E; they've specifically said that anything (campaign settings, prices, difficulties etc.) can be customized to suit any gaming group.

Jester of the FoS wrote:

alhoon wrote:IMO it should be investigation DC 15 for uncommon (the 2000gp ones), DC 20 for rare and DC 25 for very rare.

And, voila, it is so in any game you run.

Nah, not all games I run have the same magic item rarity, nor I would say it takes 10 days of downtime to not find anyone in a metropolis. I go for half the price to total price depending on persuasion. I.e. exactly the same I used in the playtests.

What I was saying is that the rules in the DMG about selling magic items seem to have very little thought behind them compared to other rules. The monster building rules for example, seem to me that they are the most thought-out rules ever in D&D.

Finally figured out something useful that the DMG monster creation doesn't cover:
How to deal with hold person and bless spells.
More or less, 1 cleric with bless and hold person increases the whole encounter XP worth by 30%. If that cleric is expected to survive a lot because of hp or has multiple hold person stuff (as in casts it at 3rd lvl to catch 2 enemies or has 3+ 2nd lvl spell slots) the encounter XP worth should increase by 40%. The same is true if there are two clerics that can cast hold person. Three clerics or two multi-hold clerics is a good +60% to the encounter's XP worth.

For example, a group of 3 CR 1/2 hobgoblins and a CR 2 warrior are worth: 3x 100XP + 450 XP = 1050XP x 2 (for being 4) = 2100 XP. Hence a nice medium encounter for 3 6th lvl adventurers.
However, a group of 3 CR 1/2 hobgoblins and a CR 2 cleric (like the cult fanatic) with bless active are worth: 3x100 XP + 450XP = 1050 XP x2 (for being 4) x 1.3 (for the bless and hold person) = 2700 XP. A tough encounter for a group of 3 adventurers of 6th lvl.