Café de Nuit

Algaris wrote:I must admit I actually like the Delve format and will be quite pleased if they use it, or a modified version, for Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, as long as they don’t dump all the flavour text and turn it into a dumbed down hack and slash affair.

Yeah... I found it useful, under certain circumstances. While it doesn't seem to fit for the semi-"free form" d20 I usually play, for a very rules-heavy campaign it could indeed spice things up.

DeepShadow wrote: Either way, I'm going to wait until I read the book before I start in with praise or complaints.

I agree, again - after all, how good or bad this book will be is something we cannot judge. I'll buy it if I indeed like the final cover, if the maps are nice, and if the interior art is okay, and so on.

Will I ever come to use this book in a campaign? - Unlikely.

Do I need this book? - Not really.

Will I be among the first to buy it? - If I can, of course!



It's pure nostalgia what will bring me to it...

Oh, and in other WotC/Ravenloft news:
It has been confirmed at GenCon that a Strahd mini will be included in a future D&D mini set (Unhallowed, due out march-ish).

And a Raistlin for those Dragonlancers.

So...was Dragon Magic badly written, or are we back to judging books by their covers (or birth origin)?

I'm not judging from the cover: I'm judging on its premises.
...
Actually, I'm not judging!
I'm just explaining my thoughts about the press releases about the book.

There are times when you cannot just trust a company anymore.
For my standards, with Dragon Magic, WotC has crossed the line.

Of course I'll judge AFTER I read the adventure, but I must admit (and I did) that I have no great expectations about it.
I really hope that my opinion will be shattered by a good, gothic, interesting book*, anyway...

* A book that, hopefully, at least acknowledge all the work Arthaus did...

Yes, darn them for making money. Darn them for putting out a book on a varient of magic (were they judged as hard for Tome of Magic or Magic of Incarnum?). Darn them for putting out a book on the monters in the title of the game (did everyone hate them for Draconomicon and Races of the Dragon?). Darn them for releasing a filler book they want to sell. Those bastards! They're ruining the hobby they created.

Damn right!
Oh, wait, you were sarcastic.

Am I mumbling, here? You can't make the same book over and over again! its like Kevin Smith is running Wotc or something.

Allow me to give a hypothetical example:
2006: Release of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
2007: Release of Denizens of Castle Ravenloft
2008: Release of DM's guide to Barovia
2009: Release of Strahd: Lord of Castle Ravenloft
2010: Release of Dwellers of Castle ravenloft

I'm not saying that Wotc cannot make lots of books - I am asaying that they should not go in circles. They have already printed out tons of matrials about every minutia of draconic life. They cannot keep rewriting that material - just to induce someone buy a new book (note: I don't say Make someone buy)

There are thousands of different things they could have written this book about:
Here's a couple ideas just using Dragon or Magic

The Deadly Art of Illusion: A book on illusion magic including rules for level of reality given to illusions, outlining differences between glamours, phantasms, figments, ect... And most importantly, how to incorporate illusions into player strategies and DM strategies.

Die, Dragons, Die!: Campaign path - 20 different dragon adventures (in brief) to take the PCs from 1st to 20th level. Each chapter comes with fully stated NPCs, a detailed horde, a couple map and hooks. Book also comes witha chapter on dealing with the special strategies to attacking dragons - ex: no invisibility without silence; scouting techniques for the lair, common things to scry for, dividing up horde, selling dragon eggs, and butchuring up the dragon for sale on the market.

Sorcery of the Horde: Magic of orcs, gnolls, ogres,ect... features ways to incorporate tribal witch doctors, mages, magical weapons, and magic-using strategies amongst the most savage races.

All the Myrad of Wryms: A book devoted to all the different vairents of dragons including a template, and a sample stated character and possibly a map and adventure hook:
Varients could include:
animalistic dragons
beheamoth dragons - big, quadraped, wingless hulks
dragons from different cultures - greek, asian, viking, aztek
drakes and animalistic flyers
wyvern types
Dragons based off of other reptiles - like a crocodile
Dragons that are based of insects instead of reptiles

And those are just off the top of my head.

Yes, darn them for making money. Darn them for putting out a book on a varient of magic (were they judged as hard for Tome of Magic or Magic of Incarnum?). Darn them for putting out a book on the monters in the title of the game (did everyone hate them for Draconomicon and Races of the Dragon?). Darn them for releasing a filler book they want to sell. Those bastards! They're ruining the hobby they created.

I can't wait then till next october, when we see Draconic urine: toilet magic.
The problem is not making money (there was a company who kept creating campaign setting, low-cost supplements... What was it called... Something like TRS... SRT... ): the problem is RUNNING CIRCLES.

Allow me to give a hypothetical example:
2006: Release of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
2007: Release of Denizens of Castle Ravenloft
2008: Release of DM's guide to Barovia
2009: Release of Strahd: Lord of Castle Ravenloft
2010: Release of Dwellers of Castle ravenloft

I think this is the most apt example. [/i]

I have heard that UInhallowed will feature a few RL minis, is this true?

Also, is it me or is the new re-hashed mdule a little on the expensive side? I won't be paying $35 for an adventure!

WotC need to commit themselves, I know they've reproducing all the old RL novels, but we need alot more new material than what they're adding (which appears to be high fantasy with a horror twist) *sigh*

I believe 2007 brings to us Denizens of ye Sphincter... something that's a must for everyone!!! How can you go to the toiiet without it?

Wiccy of the Fraternity wrote:I believe 2007 brings to us Denizens of ye Sphincter... something that's a must for everyone!!! How can you go to the toiiet without it?

Hey, I often go to the toilet with an RPG handbook...
That one would be a great help!

In their defence, the book is not an adventure so much as it is a small campaign - or so I've read.

As for miniatures, I've only heard of this Strahd mini-discussed previously in the thread. There is a rumour that the trahd mini will be given away for free on D&D Day.

Alot of people wanted it given away. This is because the next mini set, Blood War, premiers shortly after EtCR is released. However, we're not seeing a Strahd until Unhallowed which is due out in March.
Probably the soonest they could put it out after the minis boards exploded with requests after EtCR drew nearer and everyone realised there were no good vamp minis.

I'm not greatly concerned about WotC/D&D repeating itself. Every other medium does, so why not? They're pretty much repeating all they did with 2E, releasing books on the core class groups, the monsters and expanding core campaign settings. Only now they're releasing monthly sourcebooks and expansion hardcovers for select audiences like the Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords or, now, Dragon Magic. Dragons are cool, I don't mind a book on their spells or spells learned from them. Overkill but I didn't but ToB:Bo9S either as it was redundant.
Not every book can be a winner.

Really, think of a new book. Give me an example of a NEW book that WotC has never done before in any previous edition that appeals to dungeon masters and players as well as both martial and divine and arcane classes.
ScS popped out a couple ideas but Illusions are limited to wizards/sorcerers (and then only select ones) and I've seen a few d20 books on them.
The 'Horde' is expected to be the next race book. That or goblins.
A core D&D book get's published each and every month. That's alot of books. Even with the class , the environment, the monster, the race and the magic books there are alot of blank places in the printing schedual.

Seems that WOTC will release more adventures under the "Expedition to..." banner.

This one has nothing to do with Ravenloft:

They're also talking about an Expadition to Castle Greyhawk. Seems like a good idea, update the classic adventures and locales.

I really don't get how conversation shifted to Dragon Magic, all the sudden. Is it an original concept? Hardly. Has it already been done? Not that I remember. Will it be good? After reading Tome of Magic, I fully expect it to be.

As for the new encounter format, I'll wait to see the specifics and how well it benefits the adventures during actual play.

Over the last years, my faith in WotC has had its up and downs, but their later products made me a pretty happy customer. I don't really expect EtCR to cling to current setting canon, but quality-wise, I think it'll be good.

Igy, you speak true. Why do we waste so much energy accusing/defending WotC for dragon magic?

Do we really need to buy a book every month? I won't buy Dragon magic. I save money that way so I can buy a book that I will like more next month.
Will it be worthy for that unsuspecting customer that falls in the trap and buy it? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It depends more on the customer than on the book IMO.

Also don't forget this: D&D is not a game of good books or bad books. It is a game that is as good and enjoyable as we make it.

From Bruce Cordell's blog: "Castle Ravenloft Cover.
This will be the cover of the adventure Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. I think it is an interesting homage of the original cover on which this adventure is based (I6: Castle Ravenloft). Not better, just different; a new take for a new century, I suppose. (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft will be available in October)."

And you have the pic.

I respect Bruce's work. What little I've read. He seems a pretty smart guy. But, is it just me or he doesn't sound too enthused about the cover?

Patrick