Café de Nuit

Since it doesn't look like Wizards of the Coast will bring back the Planescape Campaign setting anytime soon (if ever at all). I've been slowly converting rules, modules, and random ideas from 2E to 3E. The question that is burning in my mind, however, is how do most of you view the Factions and Sects in third edition?

Do you use the old 2E templates that gets added to the character?
Do you prefer using prestige classes that are earned with experience (such as those presented in the Planar Handbook)?

I can see certain benefits and restrictions of either option, but it would be interesting to hear what everyone's thoughts are on this. In particular, a 10-level prestige class just seems really high for faction/sect membership... Thoughts?

Well Jason having played a fair amount of Planescape now I would say that we actually don't use templates or prestige classes. If you join a faction you might gain the beginning powers but nothing else.

This probably has to do with the fact that our characters never becoming too involved with our factions. Sure we will join factions but never really become real members. Why? Because our characters all have our own histories and goals thus we can advance in any class (as long as we meet the prerequisites) if it fits with the role play.

Having faction templates or classes never really bothered us. Not when we were embroiled in conspiracies aplenty (I played a Mind flayer who had a conspiracy complex).

Infact this has inspired me to type up my joke adventure again of our characters.

Coan wrote:If you join a faction you might gain the beginning powers but nothing else.

Thanks for all the input, Coan, but this remains my biggest question. If you have characters that belong to a faction and you are allowing them to have the powers, then how do you provide them? I suppose that the namer abilities could remain a freebie, but should this be the case in third edition? I guess that I'm still trying to find a way to keep the system balanced mechanically.

I have to agree with you, though, Coan. My Planescape campaigns tended to rely heavily on the character's personal agendas, and the faction components tended to be rather vague and lax.

I'd use feats to grant faction powers, that way a character can still be any class, but they become less versitile than a none-faction member.

I've considered converting the 'belief points' system into 3.5e, but hardly any of my 2e players enjoyed the system during the high days of PS anyway.

I wonder whether it still has any use...

I would think that belief points still have a use, although your players probably wouldn't like them in 3.5e if they didn't like them in 2e. Personally, I liked the idea that players were rewarded for sticking to their beliefs. Not only did they gain the points, but it incited some really good role-playing.

I must say I was never too fond of the factions in Planescape and neither were my players. They simply took a faction that didn't amper too much their liberty or that gave the best powers.

Jason of the Fraternity wrote:I would think that belief points still have a use, although your players probably wouldn't like them in 3.5e if they didn't like them in 2e. Personally, I liked the idea that players were rewarded for sticking to their beliefs. Not only did they gain the points, but it incited some really good role-playing.

I think the rarity in the allocation of belief points was the point the players disliked the most.

I'd tried to explain the canon reason for such a ruling, but these were gamers who didn't enjoy campaigning in the planes in the first place, so it was mostly a dead argument.

I think Factions can add a lot of flavor but I'm not much in favor of forcing them on people; even if a player wants to be in a faction they may not want to have their character entirely based around being in that faction - so 10 levels is pretty steep. And templates? Well, I've never been a big fan of templates, and in my experience Planescape players want to play a more unusual race anyhow, and that means one template already, and template stacking...yech.

I use, and recommend using, the feats from Chapter 4 of the Planescape Campaign Setting over at http://www.planewalker.com. That lets a player add a little "faction flavor" to their character; and if they want, there's usually a progression of faction-based feats. But for me, anyways, factions are mostly a roleplaying tool.

MatthiasStormcrow wrote:I'm not much in favor of forcing them on people; even if a player wants to be in a faction they may not want to have their character entirely based around being in that faction.

No, I've never been one to press players into choosing a faction either. I like the role-playing potential that comes out of it, but you needn't have any sort of class, template, feat, or other game mechanics to represent what a character believes. The trouble that I've been seeing is that there isn't a very good way to provide the benefits and drawbacks of the 2E versions of faction members in a 3E setting.

Prestige classes, while beneficial in many ways, do not seem to capture faction members very well. I do appreciate some of the examples provided in the Planar Handbook, but these would be the elite members of such a faction. I wouldn't expect the typically namer to have levels devoted to a particular class.

MatthiasStormcrow wrote:I've never been a big fan of templates, and in my experience Planescape players want to play a more unusual race anyhow, and that means one template already, and template stacking...yech.

Agreed. Adding another template only complicates the already complicated characters that tend to be created in this setting. The only real benefit I've seen from this approach is the lack of needing to devote prestige class levels and/or feats to becoming a member (something that I don't see as enough of a benefit).

MatthiasStormcrow wrote:I use, and recommend using, the feats from Chapter 4 of the Planescape Campaign Setting

I've seen these before, and they are probably the closest thing to matching what I am looking for. However, the feats provide the basic benefits but not necessarily the drawbacks. I am curious if anyone has created flaws or combinations of feat/flaw to more closely match the old style.

Jason of the Fraternity wrote:

MatthiasStormcrow wrote:I use, and recommend using, the feats from Chapter 4 of the Planescape Campaign Setting

I've seen these before, and they are probably the closest thing to matching what I am looking for. However, the feats provide the basic benefits but not necessarily the drawbacks. I am curious if anyone has created flaws or combinations of feat/flaw to more closely match the old style.

Indeed.

Of note also are the supplemental details for the factions in the other downloads for the campaign setting on the site.

The Nightmare Man wrote:Of note also are the supplemental details for the factions in the other downloads for the campaign setting on the site.

Could you post a link to the section that you are specifically referring to, Nightmare Man? I've been purusing their website quite a bit (which is practically a mimir full of information), but I haven't found anything particularly useful for factions. I'm not sure if I am missing something (since some of the website layout seems to be poorly mapped) or if I just don't care for what I have seen.

The chapters of the Planewalker 3.5E Planescape campaign that have been released so far are at

http://www.planewalker.com/products/released.php

The faction fluff is a bit further down, the feats are in chapter 4, the faction prestige classes are in the Planar Handbook (except for the Hardhead one in the Campaign Classics issue of Dragon)...

Seriously, get the whole thing. It's a fantastic rendition of the new era of Planescape, and it's very faithful to 2E 'Scape.

Gremmith Mi wrote:The chapters of the Planewalker 3.5E Planescape campaign that have been released so far

Thanks, Gremmith! I'll take a look at these and see if their is anything more in there than what I've read through so far.

Gremmith Mi wrote:The faction fluff is a bit further down, the feats are in chapter 4, the faction prestige classes are in the Planar Handbook

I've got the Planar Handbook and am very familiar with the faction fluff. The feats, however, might prove useful for what I'm looking to use. I'll read through them and see how helpful they are.

Muhuhahahahaha!

That will take you HOURS! There's hundreds of the things!

Anyway, the faction fluff down the bottom also has what happened to the factions during Faction War, and what they're up to 'now' in the planescape campaign. It's worth a look, but all the stuff from the bottom of the page is directly lifted from one of the chapters, so unless you want their faction symbols don't bother with it.