Café de Nuit

Look, there are bad signs on the horizon:
1) Book releases become rarer, gazetteers are suspended. It's a difficult to survive for long with one release every 4 months.
2) Ravenloft and WoD tend to cover the same market more than ever. Actually, the new WoD resembles more the old Ravenloft than the new Ravenloft (it's too claustophobic (just look into the institutionalize discipline in Bloodlines: the Hidden), too much about personal horror, un-epic, too dark - I mean TOO DARK - you don't have reason to save everything) - when WoD hits again Dark Ages - in about 20 months I suspect, the will cover exactly the same market.

I love RL, but I suspect that in about 2 years it will suspended for some years. It will continue through us. Then the 4th edition will come and probably RL will be back alive after some years!

Of course, all this is wild speculation. Nothing more.

I don't think the market overlap is quite that bad. Do remember that there is always the strong distinction between vampire players and D&D Ravenloft players. Heck, its a border nearly as thick as the Berlin wall.

But...
You may be right about White Wolfs intentions toward the setting. Ravenloft is clearly not a priority for them, which is understandable when you recall that Vampire is their flagship. Still, it is entirely possible that we are looking at a period of decline for our favourite setting.

ScS of the Fraternity wrote: Still, it is entirely possible that we are looking at a period of decline for our favourite setting.

unless we here do our best to keep it alive

I was a vampire player.

Ravenloft became good when WW took it over.

Now I'm a Ravenloft player.

Heh.

The fact remains that WW wasn't selling all the supplements they were churning out (and let us face facts they really were releasing a heck of a lot for Ravenloft).

So good business sense dictates that they cut production so not to saturate the market. If they sell the books for a profit they will continue if not they cut it.

There is very little the individual can do save to purchase the books made. The narrowing of the production does not mean Ravenloft is being shut down it just means that it is a niche market -but we already knew that.

As for overlapping. Well I'm to much a realist to believe it won't effect sales but they can't copy all of Ravenloft can they now? If they did I'm fairly sure there would be some law suits involved.

So in short I wouldn't fret, this year's sales will likely dictate what happens with Ravenloft and we can make an estimation regarding is continuation around... September/October with the information that will be available by then.

The one thing I fear is Ravenloft running out of things to fill a book up with. We allready have the Gaz series to cover all the domains, another five books max, We have had a villian and a hero book (COD and HOL), a book covering a specialty nitche (LOD:B), A book covering monsters (DOD), A few VR guides (WD, SF, and GTT Mists coming up) and the three core books (Dm guide, PHB and SotDR).

I can see roughly eight more books before they run out of ideas- A book on ravenloft races, another two VRAs, The diary of Alak(sp?) Ray covering a rouge gallery of NPC villians, another book cover more secret sociaties and another two VRGs (Horrors of the deep and Arcane (Abberations and other non classifed)) and (at least I would buy it) a book covering the art of Ravenloft and containg detailed maps of each of the domains (esspecial if Talon and Claudio Pozas were put in charge)

Even 2ned fell victum to this and just barely filled the gap with adventures , something Ah has allready said they would not do.

Religions and other new domains would be good things to cover, general stuff about the world may also be of use. I think there is much more that can yet be done with Ravenloft, so you never know.

Jasper o' nine liv wrote:We allready have the Gaz series to cover all the domains, another five books max,

For the record, since it's all moot now, the final evolution of the Kargatane plan called for a total of 13 gazetteers (up from the original 11).

Vol. VI: The Nocturnal Sea.
Vol. VII: The Sea of Sorrows.
Vol. VIII: Souragne and the Verdurous Lands.
Vol. IX: The Amber Wastes and G'Henna.
Vol. X: The Shadowlands and... an island of terror, which one I can't recall.
Vol. XI: The Frozen Reaches and Zherizia.
Vol. XII: Several islands of terror. About half the domains in this volume and the next would be entirely new.
Vol. XIII: More islands of terror, concluding with Bluetspur.

Wow ...

That is what I was going to say: we don't need books on religion or whatever (do not ForgottenRealm* our Ravenloft!), but Gaz with cool NPC and adventure hook sidebars.

Any DM can make good stuff out of the Gaz !

Joël

* I hated the 2e tendency for FR to describe every possible aspect of the realms (for ex: "undearwear in the north", or "things dwarves have in their beard") ...

Mangrum wrote:Vol. XIII: More islands of terror, concluding with Bluetspur.

WOW! If we ever get it, there will be years before we learn for Bluetspur!

Mangrum wrote:For the record, since it's all moot now,

Does that mean that the Gazetteer series has been permanently quashed for sure?

Coan wrote:The narrowing of the production does not mean Ravenloft is being shut down it just means that it is a niche market -but we already knew that.

I think that this is an excellent observation, Coan. It isn't a matter that the setting is doomed to die, but the company isn't going to pump out a lot of books if they aren't going to sell well. Truthfully, four books that are better written will garner more money than six books that tend to be rushed and poorly editted.

Stygian Inquirer wrote:Does that mean that the Gazetteer series has been permanently quashed for sure?

I currently cannot speak for John, but it doesn't sound like the gazetteer series has been permanently stopped. I would have assumed that the moot point would concern the Kargatane's plan for evolution (considering that they are no longer planning its progress).

Stygian Inquirer wrote:

Mangrum wrote:For the record, since it's all moot now,

Does that mean that the Gazetteer series has been permanently quashed for sure?

I think more that the Kargatane's plans are moot, since they're no longer working for WW.

If White Wolf stops publishing or loses the licence to publish new material and no one picks it up I doubt it'll be picked up again for the eventual "4th Edition D&D".
If the setting couldn't survive in 3/3.5E why would anyone assume it would last any better in 4E and after another decade of no books where it can be forgotten and fall into obscurity?

It only survived the transition to 3E because every company was eager to take advantage of the new d20 laws and publish and appropriate setting and White Wolf saw the opportunity to cash in as well while milking an established fanbase by licensing the unused setting that most resembled the mood of their own books.
Unless they make the same 'mistake' twice this is unlikely to happen again.

Ravenloft's only hopes are that the gaming and publishing industry undergo a massive overhaul over the next ten years (considering it is only a 30yo industry this is quite possible) or book publishing and copyright laws as a whole get tweaked or they don't cancel the line here and now until more people get into it and it leaves a lasting mark.
I vote for the third option because it delays gratification the least and lets me get new books right away. How can we do this? By supporting the line, buying the books and generally writing actual hard-copy letters to White Wolf kissing their rears for continuing to publish the setting.

The other thing one person can do is be a ravenloft evangelist. Talk about it with your non-RL RPG friends. Explain why it's a great setting. Run some additional games with RL newbies, etc...