Café de Nuit

Hello,

With Heroes of Battle coming along, WotC seems to work against the still very popluar form of gaming, the *Into-the-Manor/Dungeon-and-get-out-alive* concept most older settings favour. Now, I wonder, how would a good RPG campaign look WITHOUT any Dungeon or House of Horrors in it...
Everytime I tried to leave dungeoneering out of the plot, the campaign got finally messed up by the players...

What are your experiences and suggestions?

I'm not a fan of dungeoneering. I like more intrigue in my game. I also like stories, so the "Go kill the beastie in the caves" lacks a certain appeal for me.

But how do you evade some bashing through a lair full of zombies in a regular RL campaign? - I mean, apart from some exceptions, the dungeons have become shorter, but they are still there...

My games are heavily influenced by an old Call of Cthulhu GM I used to game with. More investigation, more interaction with NPCs, fewer mausloeums. I'm not saying I get rid of them entirely, but there aren't alot in my games.

I really don't like dungeon crawling. It's artificial, pointless, and dull, even more so in Ravenloft than in other settings. In fact, I have never used anything resembling a dungeon in my Ravenloft games, and I've removed most dungeons from the official modules (most of which were just atmospheric dungeon crawls). I'm lucky enough that my players don't like dungeons either, preferring the freedom of an open campaign. So if WotC is stepping away from dungeons, I'm happy.

As for suggestions on how to run a dungeon-light game, here's a few, although you probably know them:
1) Make it open, so that it's not just a dungeon with less walls - little is worse than when the DM says "no, you can't go there yet."
2) Play up mystery-solving and intrigue, but don't overdo it, and make sure there's a solid story behind it all.
3) Action. Players need action. Many people think that mystery adventures can't have action, but they're wrong, it's just a different kind of action than dungeon-action. Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.

I don't really do dungeon crawls. Yes, the PCs do enter castles, caves and lairs but it ain't like a video game where you fight your way to reach a big monster while gathering treasures along the way.
My PCs might have to enter a cave but it's all part of a bigger campaign. I mostly use castles and outdoor settings in my games. I'm actually forcing myself to bring back dungeon crawls.

As I said, I am definitely looking forward to *Heroes of Battle* for some more *outdoor* form of campaign... Also, the *Penumbra: En Route* series is useful to evade dungeons...

I personally have noted my tendency for large dungeons in the last few adventures... *Lost City of Gaxmoor* and *The Nightmare Lands* are maybe dungeons with walls, but still the players are involved in such an action...

A preview of Heroes of Battle is out. Curse WotC, making all these neat books I want to buy - Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, and now Heroes of Battle? I'm running out of money here.

Malus Black wrote:A preview of Heroes of Battle is out. Curse WotC, making all these neat books I want to buy - Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, and now Heroes of Battle? I'm running out of money here.

I think that's the idea.

I'm currently playing a game in the Forgotten Realms dealing with a massive war brewing between Sembia and Cormyr with the players smack dab in the middle. Right now it's kind of a Korean/Cold War being fought via the Dales but its threatening to spill over.
That book will be a godsend for when the big battles start.

I like Dungeons! They have an atmosphere I like and they are fun to DM and to play. I don't have whole campaigns in the dungeons, but I'm sure to put a haunted house here, a deep mine/tunel there or put the villain in the caves in the mountains.

Malus Black wrote: Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.

Ahem, Drakov's castle is a dungeon.

alhoon wrote:

Malus Black wrote: Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.

Ahem, Drakov's castle is a dungeon.

Which was why I said climbing, not entering. You know, scaling the highest tower of the castle while lightning arches overhead, reching the top and waving the Shadow Insurrection banner to give the signal to attack revolution-style. If anything, sneaking into Misericordia would be the most dungeon-like of those three scenarios, and even that's only if you take the standard approach. After all, nothing prevents you from getting (or forging) an invitation to the masque, or knocking out a servant and taking his clothes, or just bribing a guard to keep his eyes and ears open and report to you later. That's my main problem with the standard fight-your-way-to-the-end dungeons - there's too few options.