Café de Nuit

Hi to all!

One of my players, thinking about the next character he'll be playing in my second Ravenloft campaign (set in Darkon), decided to be a changeling artificer coming from Eberron.

The problem is that, in the campaign, every character should begin as "native" of Darkon, if you get my meaning.

Do you think this changeling will ever remember something of Eberron? What about the trains, the airships, hobgoblins, daelkirs, shifters etc etc?
I was thinking about vague dreams telling him he witnessed all of this, but... I'm not really satisfied.

About his class: do you think he could ever advance as an artificer?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Can't offer much in the way of opinion on the changeling angle - although I'd think *all* memories would be blocked out by Azalin - but artificers as a class could fit into Ravenloft, I'd think. I'd say they're more prevalent in the corners of the Core (Lamordia, Darkon, Nova Vaasa and Vechor); in Lamordia as "natural philosophers" and, well, there seems to be some funky alchemical stuff going with Easan anyhow.

Why do people think playing a human is boring?

Troile wrote:Why do people think playing a human is boring?

Well, convince me that it's not.

Seriously, I'll put on the "devil's advocate" hat here for a second.

It's understandable that some people feel the possibilities inherent in playing a human pale in comparision to the opportunities available for roleplaying some other kind of creature. If you think about it, all the humans seem to have going for them is the unlimited ability to advance in levels (talking 1e and 2e here)--they don't get cool infravision, ultravision, claw attacks, shapechanging ability (unless they're druids or high-level mages), etc. With all the other possibilities out there, players think "why do I want to play another boring human when there are races like elves, dwarves, muls, tieflings, dopplegangers and half-dragons out there?"

It can also come from just having played so long that you feel like you have to play characters that are more and more exotic just for them to be interesting. There's only so many times you can do the whole "I've lived on the streets my whole life and became a rogue out of necessity" thing or the "I have a divine calling to serve as a cleric of Holy Zeus and must smite a bunch of evildoers" thing.

And yes, before anyone says anything else, I know that characters are what you make of them, and that a good backstory and well-developed character interaction can bring zest to almost any pile of numbers that purports to be a PC. That being said, sometimes you might just want to play something exotic for a change--especially in higher-magic settings like the Forgotten Realms and Planescape.

In Ravenloft, maybe the draw is simply the role-playing aspect. If you've been in the Mists for a number of years, maybe playing an elf or half-elf or something even stranger is a captivating idea... especially after you understand that the general populace is probably going to try to burn you if they discover what you are.

*shrug as I take off the "devil's advocate" hat*

AdamGarou wrote:Well, convince me that it's not.

Oke-doke! [Puts on Micky-Mouse Hat]

Humans are the basic template for all characters and races. They are essentially a blank sheet. And, as any artist or writer can tell you, there is nothing so condusive to the imagination than a blank sheet.

Humans give the roleplayer the greatest freedom with which to create their masterpiece. There are no limits, no barriers, no preconceptions to be had. Being a human forces the player to focus on background, history, and general character flabour.

Humans are, as Sun Tzu put it, like four flavours, four colorus, four tunes. Limited yes, but there is no end to the possible combinations available.

• A single human can be:
  An urban brawler from the docks on the run from a bounty hunter
  A nomad from the deepest deserts on a pilgrimage to find holy ruins
  A degenerate canibal from beneath the earth
  A noble knight on crusade
  A not-so noble prince slumming with a band of mercenaries
  A scholar trying to solve a mystery
  An inquisitor, trying to cover up the truth

[Takes off Micky-Mouse hat.]

ScS of the Fraternity wrote: Oke-doke! [Puts on Micky-Mouse Hat]
...

• A single human can be:
  An urban brawler from the docks on the run from a bounty hunter
  A nomad from the deepest deserts on a pilgrimage to find holy ruins
  A degenerate canibal from beneath the earth
  A noble knight on crusade
  A not-so noble prince slumming with a band of mercenaries
  A scholar trying to solve a mystery
  An inquisitor, trying to cover up the truth

[Takes off Micky-Mouse hat.]

And if you're really ambitious, you can (attempt to) be all of the above.

So a well developed character is a bunch of cool stats?

My question was pretty rhetorical.

I think it comes down to what you want to play.

If you think character personality is a 1 sentence cool background hook and some cool extraordinary stats that others don't have or;

If it is a fully fleshed out personality worthy of being a main character in a novel...completely feeling, emotional, with flaws and all the rest.

I think human characters are much better at being #2 but crazy super ability creatures are better at being #1.

Troile wrote:So a well developed character is a bunch of cool stats?

Um... who said that? All I was referring to when I mentioned the "pile of numbers" is the difference between someone who actually tries to get a "feel" for the character (like having him/her act in ways that don't necessarily benefit the character's stat bonuses or survivability--such as introducing an overpowering fear of spiders into a wizard character or some other handicap--because it develops the character or because it affords interesting opportunities to roleplay) as opposed to someone who's only in the game to "win" over the other players by amassing more treasure, better AC, better saving throws, etc.

Troile wrote: My question was pretty rhetorical.

We'll have to get a "(rhetorical question)" and "(/rhetorical question)" tag set made up.

Troile wrote:
I think it comes down to what you want to play.

If you think character personality is a 1 sentence cool background hook and some cool extraordinary stats that others don't have or;

If it is a fully fleshed out personality worthy of being a main character in a novel...completely feeling, emotional, with flaws and all the rest.

I think human characters are much better at being #2 but crazy super ability creatures are better at being #1.

I can go with this, up to a point. But if it really comes down to what you want to play, your overall approach can fully flesh out the PC's feelings, emotions, flaws, etc. regardless of whether the character is a human, elf, dwarf, half-orc, ogrillon, halfling wererat, or half arcanaloth/half drow (sorry, Trebor! ).

To use some of ScS's examples (wow, there are a lot of "s"'s) in a slightly different light:

An elf can easily be...

... a wilderness scout, outcast from his community for some past mistake but still compelled to safeguard nature and protect his home from human incursion.

... a bard who, disguised by magic and performing for tips, travels throughout the Core desperately searching for the human cutthroat who slew his younger brother.

... an escaped slave (thief) from Falkovnia, on the run from Drakov, trying to make it north to Darkon where he will be *ahem* safe (at least from Vlad himself).

... an outlander apprentice mage transported through the Mists when his teacher was ensnared by them for conducting unnatural experiments upon the dead and undead (or simply a protege of Azalin's who is unknowingly being considered for induction into the Kargat).

... a constable/detective (like, oh, say, Alanik Ray) who comes from a noble family and travels throughout the domain attempting to solve crimes and aid in the cause of justice due to some buried guilt over his own family's fortunes.

Depending on how the player approaches the character, they can all have interesting backstories and histories and her-stories ( ). But told like this it's more about the player than the character...

Humans are actually one of the better races with the extra feats, no stat disadvantages and extra skill points. They have less abilities but they can easily be the best at whatever they want to focus on. A human expert can be superior to a dwarf craftsmen of equal level with the same stats through use of feats and the skill points.
They just don't have "kewl powers" such as shape changing and the like but then neither do elves.

As for a changeling in Darkon he believes it to be his homeland but not necassarily where he grew up. He might very well come to believe his parents were there, he was born there and simply was snatched away by the Mists to Eberron, this strange and insane place before the Mists came again and brought him home.
He might even be thankful for the Mists for returning him to 'his ancestoral lands' and the like.
As a Changeling the Darkon effect might hit closer to home. Other people are bound by race and physical apperance when choosing a 'family' or 'heritage'. A human living in the dwarf-populated Corvia might have problems balancing the false past and the reality but a Changeling will simply assume their parents lived in disguise.

Thaks David and Orange for your input, and thanks for making the topic return IN-TOPIC...

Why do people think playing a human is boring?

I usually play as a human.
The changeling is a PC race (unlike half-thingies and ogres).
My player want to try something for the sake of roleplaying something that can change its appearance.
That's all. Don't see problems with that.

One rather amusing possibility comes to mind, for integrating an Eberron character into Darkon: they (or perhaps an NPC who was Mist-napped alongside them) might become Ravenloft's own answer to Jules Verne! While the "Darkon effect" would eliminate conscious memories of having lived in a world of airships, lightning rails, industrial magics and mile-high apartment towers, an Eberronese outlander might well come up with all sorts of ideas for *stories* set in such a world, believing the snippets of memory that cross his or her mind from time to time are merely products of a fertile imagination. Given that the Renaissance domains are hocking romance novels and Do-It-Yourself monster-bashing guides, there's likely room in Ravenloft's publishing houses for a proto-scifi author or two!

Perhaps an H.G. Wells of Ravenloft?

The refuge from the world-that-must-not-be-named might make a living writing the stories of his homeland and publishing them to the Darkonese nobility.
The reading public regards his stories as utopian fantasy - perhaps even propaganda for their wizard-king. But none the less, they are caught up in the idea of a world filled with so much light, so much good, so much civilization.

Perhaps he even leads a small movement of mages who yearn to apply the concepts of magic to solve societal problems. These Artificers may become a patron for adventurers, or perhaps a source of disasterous magical failures.

Playing an Eberron changeling (in Darkon) is perfectly okay, but maybe you have to create some sort of expansive background or reason for making him an artificer. Perhaps he/she found a way to use Renaissance-type technology from CL9 lands for his/her advantage? Perhaps he/she found a long-forgotten treasure hoard that consists of nothing but artifice? Or perhaps he salvaged a long-inactive warforged and used his body for scrap (Ravenloft-y and Eberron-y in a way)?

but maybe you have to create some sort of expansive background or reason for making him an artificer

Well, the idea of my player was to have a changeling the Mists snatched form Eberron, where he started his life as an Artificer.
I don't see any problem with this.

The main problem I can think of is that Azalin would certainly keep a close eye on such an individual, in hopes of turning the changeling's unfamiliar magics to the lich's own benefit. The Big A may not be able to learn the artificer's trade himself, but he certainly wouldn't hesitate to exploit such an outlander's unique skills, especially if he's convinced the changeling's item-creating abilities can be used in yet another Get-Out-Of-Ravenloft-Free scheme. He might interfere with adventures to ensure the changeling serves the lich's dark purposes ... or even trick the PC into becoming the mentor for a generation of Darkonese artificers, most of which would be Azalin's Kargat agents.

Note, too, that a changeling PC who finds out about the lich-darklord's secret library of memories, later in his adventuring career, will probably be EXTREMELY freaked out by that revelation! For a being whose sense of personal safety and identity is caught up in fooling others into thinking he's somebody else, learning that an all-seeing evil mastermind has been looking over his shoulder, all along, might even be grounds for a Horror check: it's bound to be a changeling's worst nightmare, to have one's true guise and thoughts entirely exposed to a complete stranger.