Café de Nuit

Now that my PC's are in Saragoss, I've run into a unique situation that poses additional difficulties for epic gaming in RL, both for players and DM's. What do you do when people are afraid of the PC's?!

By my calculations, the fear check for facing a 27th level character is 21+Cha mod. That puts the DC for facing one PC at 33! Of course, that assumes they know the characters are that powerful, but it doesn't take many displays of power to give people a clue. IMO, it's worse when the characters display some modest amount of power with the complete frankness that comes from having ten times that amount in reserve.

The exact situation IMC has Angus, a Saragossan refugee, chosen by his crew to go talk to the new people who have just showed up. If you read IoT, such 'first contact' involves a lot of careful bluffing and intimidation as the newcomers are shown the ropes. Poor Angus already knows that these newcomers have four warships fully manned and armed, and that they dispelled the fog around themselves to see better(!) but to top it all off, he gets aboard and they begin asking him about people they observed during scrying!

So when Angus realizes that he's hopelessly out of his league, and that none of his carefully planned scripts are going to apply, and that he and his mates are going to be totally powerless before the godlike newcomers, what would be more appropriate than a Fear check?

Thank goodness I rechecked my stats, because my original calculations had Angus failing his Fear check by 16+ points, which prompted a Horror check at the same DC -5. He failed this by a like amount, which prompted a Madness check in like fashion, which he failed by a full twenty points. I'll let yo go look up what happens when you fail a Madness save at post-Major levels, but let's just say we were quite close to a character dying simply from realizing that he was facing epic PC's, and it's still in the realm of possibility with some bad rolls.

How would you handle this? Have you ever had NPC's roll fear checks for PC's?

I've considered this problem in the past, and come to the conclusion that as DM, you should just have the NPC act in a manner that will best accent the campaign. Shock/Awe if called for, Fear, or even a callous indifference all work, depending on what reaction will best support the story.

When the rules for fear checks were made, this is clearly not what they had in mind. Therefore, I'd say the standard rules don't apply in this situation. Obviously, if you were to follow them to the letter you'd have the majority of NPCs dropping dead from fright when the PCs walk in, and this would (I assume) totally wreck the game.

So my suggestion is to throw out the rules in this case and simply have the NPCs react the way you expect they would when meeting people so powerful as to defy imagination. Whether that means running away, cowering, or whatever.

JinnTolser wrote:Obviously, if you were to follow them to the letter you'd have the majority of NPCs dropping dead from fright when the PCs walk in, and this would (I assume) totally wreck the game.

Actually, that was a miscalculation. The chance of anyone dropping dead has now been reduced drastically; it would require three failed checks, the last one with a total of 8 or less. Still in the realm of possibility, but far from a majority of encounters.

Still, the potential for mayhem remains. As it stands, a 5th level rogue who discovers how powerful his intended victim is could be stricken with multiple personalities, and a sudden change of heart may be due to a foe realizing that fighting was suicide...or they may have had a Madness-induced alignment change!

As it stands, I plan to use them as guidelines, and curb the more bizarre effects, but this is one unexpected part of epic gaming that I find quite...interesting.

DeepShadow wrote: By my calculations, the fear check for facing a 27th level character is 21+Cha mod. That puts the DC for facing one PC at 33! Of course, that assumes they know the characters are that powerful, but it doesn't take many displays of power to give people a clue.

And if they have an excellent idea of how powerful that character is?...



The Epic Level Handbook doesn't give any epic level use for Intimidate, but perhaps that's not entirely appropriate for Ravenloft.

Well, I actually used this and even more IMC

IMC Intimidate works (with severe penalties) as a Fear check for the victim.
If you try to Intimidate a mass of goblins, you have of course at least a -20 penalty for the mass.

IE, when a super extraordinary bard intimidated these goblins, some died from shock and many many suffered traumas (madness and horror).
Which could warrant a power check for the character, unless she did it to avoid a full battle involving the slaughtering of the goblins who attacked her town. And only AFTER having failed using her also +1xx diplomacy

IMO knowingly using an Intimidate check to the extent that it can cause Horror effects is usually grounds for a powers check regardless of extenuating circumstances. You are deliberately trying to cause mental anguish--i.e. torture. Routine torture often warrants a powers check.

Same goes for causing a Madness check. Isn't there arlready a powers check for gaslighting?

Well, it's the kind of:
"I try to scare all of them NOW"
which might result in extreme results you haven't always expected...

tec-goblin wrote:Well, it's the kind of:
"I try to scare all of them NOW"
which might result in extreme results you haven't always expected...

It's the "expected" part I was saying might merit a powers check. Note that I said "knowingly" in my own post.

Thus, the first time you try an Intimidate check and your target screams as if he's being eaten alive, that was an unexpected reaction. Second time suggests a trend, third time IMHO it's no longer unexpected, and that's when you start making powers checks.

Of course, Horror and Madness results aren't always noticeable as such at first, so it's still DM's call as to when to start rolling checks.

The other solution is to consider that Fear, Horror, and Madness checks are all intended to be aides to role-playing and can be dispensed with if the characters react appropriately to the fearful, horrifying, or sanity-destroying situation they are faced with. So, as the DM, you are even more justified than usual to just make the NPC react as you think best and skip the game mechanics.

Exactly.