Café de Nuit

Another thing from Gygax, about turning undead, and an item:

Clerics turning undead was a needed ability that seemed to get out of hand. While I do not regret the ability, I must admit that I used many "fudge" methods to get around that, so my precious undead critters would not be so easily disposed of by the party's priest. In fact, here's one I never got around to putting in a module or otherwise writing about:

Amulet of Magnification: A magic item made by an evil cleric to protect undead serving him this item functions so as to raise the negative energy of the wearer by one or more levels (up to three in the most potent form of the device). When a cleric attempts to turn the subject wearing the amulet, the magnification is triggered.

I also had one that multiplied the negative energy of the undead, so that each one with such amulet was effectively equal to 2 to 5. It didn't work as well against high level clerics, though, with automatic destruction...

Cheers,
Gary

Turnind undead got out of hand?

Amulets that bolster undead with negative energy?
3rd edition solved these with the bolstering checks, the desecration spell, turn resistance, etc.

I must not have anybody who's very good at playing a cleric in my campaign, because they've never really taken full advantage of the ability to turn undead.

I must admit that I used many "fudge" methods to get around that, so my precious undead critters would not be so easily disposed of by the party's priest.

This is something I really never liked about Gygax: his "DM vs. Players" style of Roleplaying...

Jakob wrote:This is something I really never liked about Gygax: his "DM vs. Players" style of Roleplaying...

I thought the way he canonized the adversarial approach to DMing in the 1st edition DMG was a scream. Unfortunately, to find a quote I'll have to find someone else's copy 'cause mine was sold to a game store long ago...

[It should be in the introduction, though, for those who want to look for themselves.]

Yes, alhoon, of course - but these spells are limited in time, or in space.

I was more thinking of an amulet, or a pin, created by a foul ritual (killing an innocent, and getting a few blood drops in a small enchanted receptacle on each amulet or pin). Depending on the level of the caster, or/and the innocence of the victim (see HoL), this object could give the undead wearing it a bonus against turning.

The way I see it: a difficult to achieve ritual, but then a low cost / trouble way to reproduce these enchanted objects in multiple copies.

Joël

Jakob wrote: This is something I really never liked about Gygax: his "DM vs. Players" style of Roleplaying...

Hey, it was the start of the hobby. The DM was an all-knowing powerful person, against the players as in other regular games where people are in competition against the others.

It has evolved since 1st edition!

And Gygax recognize that the main goal of the game is to have fun. If the DM was a PC-cruncher DM, it would not be fun according to him.

Joël

PS: Brandi, in the intro? I'll look for that, my books are not too far.

Well, Gygax also spun out of the wargaming of the '70s when it was all the players versus each other. It was only natural he viewed it as competative. Try to screw over the other players and get the best loot while surviving all the evil things the DM is throwing at you. Half the battle was seeing whose character lasted the longest.

It was of course also monty haul campaigning that never progressed beyond venturing down level after level of Greyhawk dungeon.

I'll look for the quote when I get back from work, no time at the moment. Unless someone beats me to it.

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:Yes, alhoon, of course - but these spells are limited in time, or in space.

I was more thinking of an amulet, or a pin, created by a foul ritual (killing an innocent, and getting a few blood drops in a small enchanted receptacle on each amulet or pin). Depending on the level of the caster, or/and the innocence of the victim (see HoL), this object could give the undead wearing it a bonus against turning.

The way I see it: a difficult to achieve ritual, but then a low cost / trouble way to reproduce these enchanted objects in multiple copies.

I disagree with innocence turned to turn resistance. I agree with the idea of dif. ritual => cheap objects.

On the fly I would advise the following. Just poped in my mind, so put your suggestions!

Turn resistance amulet (pin/bracer/mark etched in skull/replaced golden finger or anything):
requirements CL 9th, craft wondrous item feat, able to cast unhallow spell, evil alignment.
Components: Dust from an undead of 5HD or more with turn resistance special quality and energy drain special attack (to bolster the undead), Undead HD x 1000 gold pieces, Undead HD x 40 XP.

The way it works: The creator makes a long ritual that takes 1 day/ undead HD and needs expensive incense, special made candles, gold encraved runes, ceremonial equipment (daggers, chandeliers, candleholders, goblets etc) made of fine and delicate materials. These items are either consumed in the ritual (incense, candles) or destroyed, corrupted and warped by the negative energy created by the ritual so that they cannot be used again.
The ritual creates Undead HD x turn resistance "levels". These "levels" are imbued in specialy made items (the amulets/pins/bracers etc) that their cost is part of the ritual. Each item can hold as many such "levels" as the original undead's turn resistance. Each such "level" gives any undead wearing the amulet a +1 unholy bonus to turn resistance that stacks with the user's turn resistance.
The caster decides how many. For example if the original undead was 6 HD and had +2 turn resistance, its dust could be used to create 12 amulets that give +1 turn resistance, 6 amulets that confer a +2 to turn resistance or any combination of the two.

Example: A vampire cleric captures two 5th level characters turns them to vampires and then drops them in the sunlight turning them to dust. Then it uses the dust in the ritual proposed before.
1. Since each slain vampire was 5th level, to perform the ritual the vampire cleric should pay 5000 x2 = 10000 gold in materials.
2. The rituals take 10 days and consume all the materials used except of the amulets to be imbued. The vampire is weakened losing 400 XP.
3. Since fledging vampires have +4 turn resistance (sinkholes of evil, desecrate effects etc. don't count in the ritual) each generates 20 "levels" of turn resistance, to a total of 40 such "levels"
4. The vampire cleric can make amulets with turn resistance bonus of +1 to +4. He decides to make a gold amulet for himself giving him a +4 turn resistance, 2 silver amulets that give +3 turn resistance for his vampire spawns and 15 copper amulets that give +2 turn resistance for his obedients.