Café de Nuit

Dear members of the Fraternity,

We are pleased to announce the launch of a project that is for us a test on a serie of Gazetteer-like projects. The fans often said the Gazetteer project was the mot important loss of the end of the Ravenloft line by White Wolf.

Our first domain covered by this project is Souragne.

For the moment, the proposed layout (revised, 11/16/05) of each netbook should be close to the following:

Geographic Survey
(Description of the land and region, rough landmarks and the like, with the following sub-headings after the bulk)
* Indigenous Plants (what grows there, the place for new plants, herbs and floral animals)
* Indigenous Animals (what lives there, the place for new critters, common animals and some monsters)

Sociological Survey
(general cultural feel here. Primitive? Advanced? Tribal? Etc)
* Indigenous People (the races, their names and areas, etc. Probably where we can squeeze the “____ Hero” sidebar as well)
* Local History (both false and recent)
* Customs and Beliefs (lifestyle; food and language, clothing, views on magic, and religion)
* Governments (Who rules and what style)
* Settlements of Note (where the city descriptions go)

For the Fraternity
(Things of interest to the Fraternity, part of the metaplot and reasoning for the Gaz. Why the land is of use to the Frat. Or why it is not. This is also where much of the community written contributions will be placed.)
* Magic (local variants and unique elements)
* Places of Interest
* People of Interest

Gaming Notes
(the crunch)
Feats, spells, monsters, salient abilities, PrC, items, NPCs, etc


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How will it be written?

This new 'Gazetteer' will be mostly written by the Fraternity members. However, we would appreciate any and all contributions the fans are willing to make.

We encourage you to send us your ideas (whether it is an idea for a monster, a cool NPC, an adventure hook, or a detailed text on plant life or politics), we will be more then happy to include your ideas in the final document.

However, in order to keep the quality at the highest possible level -one expected of the Fraternity and Ravenlof- we will have the final word on any submissions. The Fraternity does reserve the right to refuse text that is of poor quality or simply does not fit the feel of Ravenloft or the domain, or to edit the text to blend it smoothly with the rest of the netbook.

The details are still to be discussed, but we plan to open a thread where fans can write a few words about the idea they had, or the subject on which they are working, in order to avoid unnecessary duplications.

You have about 6 weeks to send us your ideas and / or texts. The deadline is Monday December 19th. Send your submissions at joel@fraternityofshadows.com.

We would like to insist on one point: this first Gaz is a tests, and that fans that prove us they can write us good quality texts could be later one asked to share the editing work with us. We do not want to do it by ourselves if there are other people willing and able to help us!

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Guidelines about copyrights.

We won’t accept anything plagiarizing any copyrighted material from 3e or 2e.

If you need to discuss something about Souragne loas, for example, make a short summary in few words, and put the Dark Tales & Disturbing Legends book as the reference to be consulted. For NPCs that were covered in length and fully “stated” in 3e, just put the book reference to it.

For the rest, we advise you to play with the same guidelines as any other fan article: if you get inspiration from any published text, expand it tenfold, or twist it and add your ideas, like many authors did for a BoS or QtR article.

For NPCs from 2nd edition, (ex: Chickenbone from MCII), for the moment we can’t allow a full conversion of these NPC to 3e. However, you can convert him in short, i.e. just “stat” the basics in 1 line, with basic class of this NPC, suggested hit points, AC and main abilities.

If you give this NPC a new ability never found before in the printed material, you can detail these abilities as these are your own ideas.

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The metaplot

In the grand tradition of the infamous S story, the books should have a similar metaplot. This remains to be discussed between us, but in short, it will be around a FoS search for new allies in new lands, and a search of our infamous traitor. Other major details will be intertwined too.

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Please react to this news here in this thread!

Sincerely,

The Fraternity of Shadows,
Souragne

Im looking forward to seeeing the new Mansion. Of course with the weather conditions there I'll need a new wardrobe. I hope that the tailors there are decent.


Maraudar

I think it's grand news. We've been long overdue more news and info on the islands and clusters. Bravo!

Needless to say I'm really looking forward to further info on Paridon.

Hint.

Hint.

OK, so? Can we make the domain bigger than it was in 2nd edition? You know 2.25 x 2 miles isn't much of a domain IMO.
I believe that a 25 x 20 miles would be much better!

I second the idea of making the domain larger. We need it to be at least as large as Haiti to make it work.
Ecologicly the two mile island would never work to support any kind of settlement. The building materials needed (trees, iron for nails, rope plants) would not be in any where near the levels needed for a full settlement to be built let alone the huge masions of the rich. Fresh water and sewege would be another big problem. With over a hundred rotting dead fed into the swamp the islands freshwater aquafer would qucikly be purtified and undrinkable. The waste from the settelment would also cause massive outbreaks of disintarty, diarehea and other baterial infections.
On a 30+ mile island however the dead can be kept in a set stagnant area not directly connected with the aquafer and thus safe. The land would also allow a decent range of hardwood trees near the swamp outlets as well as a full ecosystem of native flora and fauna.


On a second only semi related note if we are going to keep the deep south/New orliens/Haitian culture/voodoo route what is the concensious on the land owners having slaves?

I know its a kinda taboo subject but you would be hard pressed to relate the voodoo evil feel unless it was first brought up through a opressed minority people.

I like your notions about the size of the domain, Jasper. This is the best time to be considering such changes - and this would be the oppertunity document to make such changes.

As for the notions on slavery, I concur with your concerns. We'd ideally like to avoid topics of that nature - it leads to the ugly notion of romanticising racism.
However, I like to take the Weird Wars point of view, which to paraphrase goes - though including slavery will be offensive, not including it is much, much more offensive.
Thus it would be a big, big mistake to portray some sort of fantasy antebullum south without oppression and racism. Kind of like that Mel Gibson movie The Patriot, where slavery mysteriously vanishes from America.

Regardless, Ravenloft offers us some middle ground, though. The medieval nature of the setting allows us to bring up Serfdom - a brutal form of oppression which does not have the racist connotations.

So, same thing, different name.
I guess we're just lucky that humans have so many insitutions designed to exploit, oppress and humiliate other humans.

Jasper wrote:I second the idea of making the domain larger. We need it to be at least as large as Haiti to make it work.
Ecologicly the two mile island would never work to support any kind of settlement. The building materials needed (trees, iron for nails, rope plants) would not be in any where near the levels needed for a full settlement to be built let alone the huge masions of the rich. Fresh water and sewege would be another big problem. With over a hundred rotting dead fed into the swamp the islands freshwater aquafer would qucikly be purtified and undrinkable. The waste from the settelment would also cause massive outbreaks of disintarty, diarehea and other baterial infections.
On a 30+ mile island however the dead can be kept in a set stagnant area not directly connected with the aquafer and thus safe. The land would also allow a decent range of hardwood trees near the swamp outlets as well as a full ecosystem of native flora and fauna.


On a second only semi related note if we are going to keep the deep south/New orliens/Haitian culture/voodoo route what is the concensious on the land owners having slaves?

I know its a kinda taboo subject but you would be hard pressed to relate the voodoo evil feel unless it was first brought up through a opressed minority people.

I believe that the RCS made references to some kind of slavery, or at least an extremely abused worker class. As for making the island larger, I third the idea, but refer everyone back to the variable sizes of 3.x. I would avoid listing the size of the island and instead mention that there are vast tracts of swampland that have not been explored. It allows for areas in the swamp that can be lived in (you have to introduce inbred swamp folk. You just have too!) as well as keeping the players from feeling they know every inch.

I respectfully disagree Tobias. A 30 x 30 miles swamp/plains, is something that leaves by itself parts of the swamp unexplored. I just HATE map that don't have some kind of measurement. And Players can't know every inch of the map, even if they have the map in front of them.

PS can we sent art? Photos?

alhoon wrote:I respectfully disagree Tobias. A 30 x 30 miles swamp/plains, is something that leaves by itself parts of the swamp unexplored. I just HATE map that don't have some kind of measurement. And Players can't know every inch of the map, even if they have the map in front of them.

PS can we sent art? Photos?

In which case a 2 mile island is just as good. Sourgane isn't as large place (it was never meant to be), with only a few small settlements and a large swamp. Tiny settlements, a few manor houses and you're set. Water comes from wells and the sea. It isn't Dementlieu or Richemulot, where there is a massive infrastructure. Bad water and sewage is going to be a problem. It is a swamp after all.

It doesn't need to be big to make it threatening.

30 x 30 miles is small enough Tobias. It makes it a small domain.
It is a swamp and a medevial at that. The pop density should be about 3-4 people/ square mile or about 3000 people in general.

2 miles is very small. People could walk from one side of the domain to the other in less than an hour and not even walking on straight line or a good road. Add to this that half the domain is taken up by a swamp and . . . you have about 3 sq miles of land! That wouldn't support a few settlements and a manor, but a simple hamlet with about 100 people! Not "a few tiny settlements and a few manors" but not even a single manor!

alhoon wrote:30 x 30 miles is small enough Tobias. It makes it a small domain.
It is a swamp and a medevial at that. The pop density should be about 3-4 people/ square mile or about 3000 people in general.

2 miles is very small. People could walk from one side of the domain to the other in less than an hour and not even walking on straight line or a good road. Add to this that half the domain is taken up by a swamp and . . . you have about 3 sq miles of land! That wouldn't support a few settlements and a manor, but a simple hamlet with about 100 people! Not "a few tiny settlements and a few manors" but not even a single manor!

And this is why 3e didn't discuss size. It's as big as you want it to be. You want to have a scale, add it yourself and you're right.

Two points, I'm of the opinion size doesn't matter and lands should be as big as they're needed and as small as they're wished to be.
Adding scale that would directly contradic published material is iffy and it is better to just leave it vague and let people decide for themselves if they want two miles wide or twenty.

As for racism, I believe they stated that the two races in Souragne are equal but there is a strong class divide between the land owners and the workers, which could be taken different ways depending on your tolerance.

David of the FoS wrote:Two points, I'm of the opinion size doesn't matter and lands should be as big as they're needed and as small as they're wished to be.
Adding scale that would directly contradic published material is iffy and it is better to just leave it vague and let people decide for themselves if they want two miles wide or twenty.

As for racism, I believe they stated that the two races in Souragne are equal but there is a strong class divide between the land owners and the workers, which could be taken different ways depending on your tolerance.

I agree with David (and Alhoon), where the size of the island is concerned. The mists have a way of making the island seem smaller at times, and larger at others. On some foggy days, it may take one a full day to walk from Marais d'Tarascon to Port d'Elhour, but on clear days it might only take a few hours. Given the fact that the island has 3,100 inhabitants, I definitely think the island needs to be somewhat larger than a few miles across. I think the island may have been the size of Haiti prior to being absorbed by Ravenloft. After all, the map of Souragne in the 3.5 RPHB shows the Tristepas leading south (at least I presume that's south), into the hazy outer limits of the island. I say "hazy outer limits" because the map does not show a concrete shore line, which suggests that a greater land mass may be concealed by the mists.

RPHB (p. 191) states that "most settlements are in the east, where ground is slightly higher and flooding less severe," which strongly suggests that (contrary to what is written in DoD) there are other small settlements on the island besides Port d'Elhour and Marais d'Tarascon. No matter how small the settlements, a land mass larger than 2 miles across would be required to sustain them. Of even greater interest are the descriptions of Port d'Elhour in canon sources:

"The domains villages are cramped and sweltering, the gray stone edifices of their buildings looming over narrow, muddy streets" (RPHB, p. 191; also see DoD, p. 95).

Given that Port d'Elhour has a population of 1,200... where would one find enough stone to build hundreds of homes on a half submerged, swampy island that primarily relies on its land base for agricultural purposes? It would not make sense to import that much stone by sea. IMC, the stone came from inland mountains that faded from view (as did other low lying areas to the south and east of the domain map) when Souragne became a part of Ravenloft. It is interesting to note that the lizardmen of Maison d'Sablet are also building a pyramid of stone in the swamp (CotN:Werebeasts, pp. 88-89). Where are they getting their building materials from??? One way or another, I would like to see the issue of building materials addressed in the gaz.

Where the issue of slavery is concerned... I would prefer to see slavery (not serfdom) at its worst in Souragne -- if anything, the horror of slavery (yes, along racial lines) would paint an even more terrifying canvas than all the zombies on the island combined. Slavery presents an opportunity for PC reflection, for moral dilemmas (do the characters turn a blind eye to what they see around them when the nobles are initially sympathetic to them and are the only ones able to help them get off the island?), and for the heroes to make a real stand against evil when they (hopefully!) decide to oppose Souragne's elites. I would rather not see this potential watered down in the interest of "political correctness." Ravenloft is a setting with mature themes, let's address them in a mature way... while making it clear that our work in no way condones the practices of slavery or racism. We could even turn the tables... the slaves need not be coloured folk, and the elites need not be pale skinned folk.

IMC, I've also given Souragne an indigenous past... that is to say, indigenous tribes were nearly wiped out by colonizers centuries ago. The bayous are haunted by some of their spirits, and the lizardmen introduced in CotN:W are in fact the last living descendants of those indigenous people, who have assumed the totem form favoured by their gods.

I could go on and on about what else I'd like to see in the gaz (partially because I've already started a gaz of my own)... but I'll save some for later. My apologies if I got carried away!

Anyway... thanks for initiating this project, Joel and crew... and if you haven't guessed by now, I would love to contribute to it!

RESOLVED: No land measurements.

ScS of the Fraternity wrote:As for the notions on slavery, I concur with your concerns. We'd ideally like to avoid topics of that nature - it leads to the ugly notion of romanticising racism.

However, I like to take the Weird Wars point of view, which to paraphrase goes - though including slavery will be offensive, not including it is much, much more offensive.

Thus it would be a big, big mistake to portray some sort of fantasy antebullum south without oppression and racism. Kind of like that Mel Gibson movie The Patriot, where slavery mysteriously vanishes from America.

Regardless, Ravenloft offers us some middle ground, though. The medieval nature of the setting allows us to bring up Serfdom - a brutal form of oppression which does not have the racist connotations.

So, same thing, different name.
I guess we're just lucky that humans have so many insitutions designed to exploit, oppress and humiliate other humans.

There's also no need for slavery to be described along lines of colour. I know little about Asia, but the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and Persians made slaves of their own people. It was the usual case of triumphs of war for recent slaves and an ancient, sad inheritance for the rest. I think what's important isn't the colour or nationality of the slaves, but the oppression which holds them in place. We also already have a nation- Falkovnia- which details the horror of slavery along the lines of race.

If we're looking at correlations between modern issues to realms, then let Souragne be similar to the Haiti of the Duvalier regime, or any other postcolonial regime. What the PCs and readers come in to find are the ravages of a former government which is no longer present physically, but has left lines of division due to groups/families/sects they favoured over others. A messy topic, sure, but do you want PC's to be immediately able to spot the problems, and/or easy to resolve? Or do you want to cultivate an appreciation for how complex life can be, both fictional and real, and how marked the present is by the ravages of history?