Café de Nuit

The Kargatane website, in its lingering undeath as it were, seems to be decaying badly. The catalogue is no longer functional and, less terrifyingly, the dread quote of the day has been polymorphed into a random error.

A quick fix of both problems would be greatly appreciated.

Longer term, however, the catalogue's future merits thought. Updated it would be invaluable, left as it is and where it is, it may fade away and ultimately be lost to us.

Ideally, some sort of decentralised updating process is worth considering. Would this be wiki or something else and better? I would be able to introduce material from, for example, my recent reading of To Sleep With Evil, without, however, being obliged to assume maintenance of the entire catalogue as the price of that priviledge.

Thoughts? Dread possibilities?

cure wrote:The Kargatane website, in its lingering undeath as it were, seems to be decaying badly. The catalogue is no longer functional and, less terrifyingly, the dread quote of the day has been polymorphed into a random error.

A quick fix of both problems would be greatly appreciated.

Longer term, however, the catalogue's future merits thought. Updated it would be invaluable, left as it is and where it is, it may fade away and ultimately be lost to us.

Ideally, some sort of decentralised updating process is worth considering. Would this be wiki or something else and better? I would be able to introduce material from, for example, my recent reading of To Sleep With Evil, without, however, being obliged to assume maintenance of the entire catalogue as the price of that priviledge.

Thoughts? Dread possibilities?

Wiki seems to be a good idea. It allows for an easy cooperative effort, it is easy to correct and it has search features, so....

The trouble is there's a vast amount of info already in the catalogue. It would be a shame to lose that. I wonder if there's a way to convert the database that's there into a wiki.

I've tried contacting Stu to try and get the catalogue back up, but I haven't succeeded. It's in a sort of limbo state now. If it were functional, we editors could make changes, but as it is, only Stu has the ability to fix it. (He did once before when it got like this.)

I would hate to have to start all over with a fresh wiki, but maybe that's the way to go... :/

I don't know anything about database management, but I'm pretty sure the database can be exported to something else. Even a text file could be useful!

In order to get the whole thing onfile, for when I was away from the net (yes, there were days when not all computers were linked to the net!), I once made a copy of a search I made (on the letter "e", assuming it would get most entries. I think I should have most of it). It's a mammoth 800 pages file, but it's easily searchable with Word's functions.

If the catalogue can't get online, it could be a good idea to put this 4 meg file online. It's the best reference for 2e.

Joël

gonzoron wrote:The trouble is there's a vast amount of info already in the catalogue. It would be a shame to lose that. I wonder if there's a way to convert the database that's there into a wiki.

I've tried contacting Stu to try and get the catalogue back up, but I haven't succeeded. It's in a sort of limbo state now. If it were functional, we editors could make changes, but as it is, only Stu has the ability to fix it. (He did once before when it got like this.)

I would hate to have to start all over with a fresh wiki, but maybe that's the way to go... :/

If we do want to have a new host for the catalogue, I am willing to host it. Heck, I'd host a whole Wiki on Ravenloft if needed. I doubt there's a way to convert the original catalogue into a Wiki, although converting it to a normal database (for use in a different catalogue) would probably be possible, but again, we'd need access to the database files.

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:I don't know anything about database management, but I'm pretty sure the database can be exported to something else. Even a text file could be useful!

In order to get the whole thing onfile, for when I was away from the net (yes, there were days when not all computers were linked to the net!), I once made a copy of a search I made (on the letter "e", assuming it would get most entries. I think I should have most of it). It's a mammoth 800 pages file, but it's easily searchable with Word's functions.

If the catalogue can't get online, it could be a good idea to put this 4 meg file online. It's the best reference for 2e.

Joël

I can help with changing format if the Database it is in is something I can read. But, Joël, I didn't understand your mail. Do you have the catalogue yourself? I could give it a look and see if there was any way it could be automated into an easy format, but I don't promise anything.

Ail

No, I just have a Word document text file with most of the database content (if not all of it).

It isn't formatted or linked. It looks like the following text. The info blocks are organized this way:

Type: NPC / Location / Society / Domain / Monster / Item / Magic / city / event

Main sources: (name only)

Description:

Stats/rules:

Art work:

See also:

--- like in the following texts:

Count Strahd von Zarovich (The Devil Strahd, Lord Vasili von Holz, Strahd XI)
Show me records related to "Count Strahd von Zarovich (The Devil Strahd, Lord Vasili von Holz, Strahd XI)"

Secrets of the Dread Realms
Domains of Dread
I, Strahd
House of Strahd
Ravenloft I6
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I

Secrets of the Dread Realms - pp7,10-12,18-19,27,31,114
Ravenloft Third Edition - p4,12-13,17,114,124
Domains of Dread - pp61-62
Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium I - pp10-13,17,43,82
I, Strahd -throughout
I, Strahd: the War Against Azalin -throughout
House of Strahd - throughout
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting:Domains and Denizens - pp7-10, pp97-101
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires - pp6-9,13,46,77
Roots of Evil - p6,15,39,55-57,90-95
From the Shadows - pp14-15
Tales of Ravenloft:Caretaker - pp303-316
The Evil Eye - pp57, 58
Vampire of the Mists - throughout
Realm of Terror - p5,pp116-119,p127
Ravenloft I6 - throughout
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I - pp150-152

Secrets of the Dread Realms - pp10-12
Domains of Dread - pp61-62
House of Strahd - pp4-5
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting:Domains and Denizens - pp97-101
Roots of Evil - p6
Realm of Terror - pp116-119
Ravenloft I6 - p3
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I - pp150-152

Secrets of the Dread Realms - p11
Domains of Dread - p61
House of Strahd - cover, pp1,5,25,60,63
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting - box cover
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting:Domains and Denizens - p9,p98
Roots of Evil - front cover, p7,69,72,93,95
Forbidden Lore: Nova Arcanum - p3, front cover
Vampire of the Mists - front cover
Realm of Terror - p117, front cover, reference cards
TSR JAM 1999 - front cover
Ravenloft I6 - cover, pp3,15
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I - p151

Vampire (Monster)
Darklord of Barovia (Domain)
Resident of Castle Ravenloft (Location)
Brother of Sergei and Sturm von Zarovich (NPCs)
Hunts for Tatyana Federovna in her incarnations (NPC)
ID:2 Record created on 09-Apr-2000, last modified 25-Jan-2003


Castle Ravenloft
Show me records related to "Castle Ravenloft"

Realm of Terror
House of Strahd
Ravenloft I6

Secrets of the Dread Realms - p12
Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium I - p11
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting:Domains and Denizens - pp7-8
House of Strahd - pp24-60
Ravenloft Third Edition - p4,12-13,15,17,114
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires - p7
Roots of Evil - pp33-50,88-91
From the Shadows - pp10-14
Vampire of the Mists - throughout
Realm of Terror - p64, reference card Download Now!
Ravenloft I6 - pp12-30
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I - p39

Roots of Evil - pp48-49
From the Shadows - inside cover
Realm of Terror - reference card
House of Strahd - poster map
Ravenloft I6 - inside cover+poster map

Realm of Terror - reference card
House of Strahd - cover
Ravenloft I6 - cover, p10

Located in Barovia (Domain)
Lair of Count Strahd Von Zarovich (NPC)
ID:3 Record created on 09-Apr-2000, last modified 22-Jan-2003


Barovia
Show me records related to "Barovia"

Domains of Dread
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I

Secrets of the Dread Realms - pp7,10-12,18,40
Ravenloft Third Edition - pp4,12-13,15,17,110,112-114
Domains of Dread - pp59-61
House of Strahd - pp14,18
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting:Domains and Denizens - pp7-10
Vampire of the Mists - throughout
Realm of Terror - pp63-65
Ravenloft I6 - pp6-7
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I pp9-40

Secrets of the Dread Realms - pp8-9
Domains of Dread - pp42-43
The Ravenloft Campaign Setting - poster map
Realm of Terror - poster map
Servants of Darkness - poster map
Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume I - p12

Ruled by Count Strahd von Zarovich (NPC)
Located in the Balinok Mountains (Location)
ID:4 Record created on 30-Apr-2000, last modified 22-Jan-2003

---

I think somebody good at managing database could extract all the info and make something out of it.

A few simple coding could easily extract it:

- the name of the entry is always followed by "Show me records related to" line and the entry ends with a line starting with "ID:"

- I have a list of all entries by Type (NPC / Location / Society / Domain / Monster / Item / Magic / city / event), to sort the entries.

- a line separates each info block.

- the two first blocks are always found: Main sources / Description, as well as "See also:"

- while the other two (Stats/rules and Art work) are not always there - the only tricky part to separate, perhaps.

Joël

That definately would go a long way to rebuilding the catalogue. I'm not a database expert, but I am a text-manipulation expert, and I could pretty easily transform that into whatever input format was needed. The only tough part is the links in the See Also field are missing, but that could be regenerated pretty easily.

I'm glad you've got that at least, Joel!

Only problem with using it is: do we have the right to do so? I know you and I both contributed, but who's intellectual propery is it? The contributors or the Kargatane?

Well, to be on the safe side, we should ask for permission to the K, of course.

But I'm quite sure we should get it, as Stu proposed it to someone willing to host it.

Joël

Let's not forget that Joel's Document does possibly not represent the whole catalgoue though!

When asking permission be sure to also ask if they can export the whole DB for us. (at best with the interlinking too! )

I was one of the editors of the catalog. I was up to hosting it myself or the ravenloft UK site was willing but real life got in the way and things didn't proceed much further from a few e-mails.
I just lurk here now...

Just a query, if the K is down and the catalogue is gone, has anyone stopped to wonder if that means if Stu is OK?

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:Just a query, if the K is down and the catalogue is gone, has anyone stopped to wonder if that means if Stu is OK?

Yup, I've wondered, and worried a bit. But he was unreachable for a while once before and then re-emerged. So I assume the same thing is happening again. But yeah, it's a bit troubling.

The Giamarga wrote:Let's not forget that Joel's Document does possibly not represent the whole catalgoue though!

When asking permission be sure to also ask if they can export the whole DB for us. (at best with the interlinking too! )

FYI, the file has 2 320 records, and was made a few days b4 that fateful Halloween 2003.

Joël

Definately not complete then. There were a couple minor resurgences after that. I know I did I Strahd 2 in early '05. Robert finished I10 sometime in '04. (just scanning through some old emails...) Probably 90% complete. (better than nothing!)