Café de Nuit

Okay, so as not to confuse Ravenloft purists, I am well aware that the Ravenloft Weave is not in any way connected to the Weave systems of the Forgotten Realms.

Upon explaining this to a co-DM (a Realms player), he believes that the Halan Weave is Mystra's, and if he ever runs a Ravenloft game he will make sure that Mystra would intervene and shut down this Weave, to the detriment of Halan witches everywhere.

Then suddenly he asks me if I could come up with a Realmsian interpretation of the Ravenloft Weave, for clerics who would eventually enter.

After wracking my head (and borrowing Magic of Faerun from yet another DM) for ideas, I came up with a Faerunian theologic explanation for Ravenloft's Weave:

The Weave of Ravenloft is a strain of Shar's Shadow Weave, yet neither Shar nor Mystra does not control it. Unlike the Shadow Weave of Faerun, the Halan Weave can generate Light, and can only be accessed by the witches of Hala, who may or may not be a yet-undiscovered aspect of Shar which is neither evil nor good (in the Realmsian sense).

There it is.

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:Upon explaining this to a co-DM (a Realms player), he believes that the Halan Weave is Mystra's, and if he ever runs a Ravenloft game he will make sure that Mystra would intervene and shut down this Weave, to the detriment of Halan witches everywhere.

Interesting thought. Wouldn't this also cause problems for hags?

Perhaps Mystra would do this in the midst of another GC, to avoid complications with the Unspoken Pact.

But then again, why shut it down? Why would Mystra be upset that her weave extended into RL?

DeepShadow wrote:But then again, why shut it down? Why would Mystra be upset that her weave extended into RL?

Perhaps She knows something we don't, that perhaps Hazlik is planning on utilizing that connection back to Toril to blow up all of the Mulan...

Or perhaps the DPs shamelessly copied the concept of "the Weave" from Faerun, when they were first crafting the Land of Mists, and now they're merely letting the poor chump think he can exploit the (nonexistent) connection in this way.

Why should Azalin be the only darklord-wizard whose arcane plots the DPs get a real kick out of stringing along, then sabotaging with horrific consequences? Gotta wonder what the Hazlani-themed equivalent of Il Aluk's demise might look like....

Steve Miller, who wrote the Guide to Witches, said that the Weave in Ravenloft is not the Weave from Faerun in any way, shape, or form. I velieve it's more like the fabric of life/creation itself instead of some tapestry of magic. Mystra shouldn't have any power over it.

Mystra shutting down the Ravenloft Weave would be a violation of the Unspoken Pact. Besides, I doubt that she would have any say in the matter, since the Dark Powers would likely just start it up again or repower their own.

Well, regardless of the true mechanics of the system, if a Forgotten Realms DM chose to take a slight detour into Ravenloft, it might be interesting to tie the two Weaves together and also introduce the Hazlik's revenge storyline into it.

If we want to keep Ravenloft pure, cool beans. But if we want to introduce weird elements from Forgotten Realms (like the original poster's friend wants to do), might as well see what other things that will link to and change, thus creating a richer and more interesting campaign idea.

As long as it doesn't interfere with the entire land. We know that the deities abide by the Unspoken Pact, and we're fairly sure that Dark Powers provide whatever is needed to allow magic to work in Ravenloft. Defilers don't suddenly gain the ability to cast spells without sucking the life out of the land, Clerics of "Bane" still got their spells despite his being dead, Mages of the Tower of High Sorcery didn't suddenly hook up to the Weave.

The Dark Powers seem to provide everything necessary to keep magic working, to keep their toys on level ground. For entities capable of replacing the power of a god with their own, create entire full populated lands in the blink of an eye, and capture demigods, there is no reason to believe they would have to rely on some other goddess's work to keep their magic running (or that they would hook up other casters too it).

If a DM thinks that the Hala Weave is the same as the Faerun Weave and gives Mystra the power to shut it down, then it must also be the same weave that grants magic to at least the faerunian magic users and they are now no longer able to cast spells.

I just fail to see what it brings to the setting to give a piddly goddess from one campaign world the ability to muddle with the Dark Powers toys.

Tobias Blackburn wrote:I just fail to see what it brings to the setting to give a piddly goddess from one campaign world the ability to muddle with the Dark Powers toys.

Admittedly it is something of a stretch, but for some reason this gives me an idea for a plan by the Dark Powers to capture, contain, and hamstring a full on god/dess. I really can't think of any purpose for such a thing, beyond pehaps trying to sooth their egos over allowing Ezra in, but it is a somewhat interesting concept.

Of course Mystra is not in the slightest the kind of candidate the DPs generally look for, but who knows?

Corrupted_Loremaster wrote:Admittedly it is something of a stretch, but for some reason this gives me an idea for a plan by the Dark Powers to capture, contain, and hamstring a full on god/dess. I really can't think of any purpose for such a thing, beyond pehaps trying to sooth their egos over allowing Ezra in, but it is a somewhat interesting concept.

They tried that with Vecna and it didn't work out too well. If they can't keep a handle on a demigod, what're the chances of them taking on a real god?

As someone that has GMed for both Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft, the notion that Mystra either could or would control the weave in Ravenloft is incredibly irksome.

One thing you might throw in his face, Dion, is that also if the Halan weave is indeed part of Mystra, why wasn't it affected when Mystra was killed and ressurected, or even when she spent time in Elminister's body. Or how about during the fall of Netheril, when the very fabric of magic was nearly condemned. The Weave was left completely unaffected in all of these cases.

I once thought about doing mergers between RL and FR, but then I realized that it would be like mixing water and oil. I even wanted to introduce the Law Giver into Thay. Then I read more on the RL material and realized that the realm of dread is best left completely alone by the other realms.

The reason why they are both weaves is that both religions relate back to the Gaia concept (or at least, that has always been my interpretation of them).

I'd like to think that the FR gods would have no influence over the Ravenloft DPs in the same regard that they have no influence over the gods of other realms. Sure, the DPs might not be as powerful as gods, but who says the Faerunian deities could even reach them deep in the ethereal plane? Vecna may have over powered them, but that's because he was right there.

I also have to wonder why a NG goddess would even both with the realm of dread? Mystra believes in granting magic to mortals, and in it being used responsibly. Not crusading into doomed realms.

I never liked the concept of Mystra's Weave to begin with. Arcane spellcasters shouldn't have to answer to any god/goddess. If they wanted to suck up to a divine power, they'd have thrown away the books and become clerics.

Undead Cabbage wrote:Or how about during the fall of Netheril, when the very fabric of magic was nearly condemned.

Ravenloft didn't exist yet back then. But other than that, Cabby's got a point: cross-link your pantheons between worlds, and both settings tend to suffer. One might as well ask why Boccob doesn't destoy the Nucleus of the Spheres (a Mystara-setting artifact) to stop it draining off the power of magic, or why Takhisis doesn't muscle her way into the Sovereign Host of Eberron, since those deities are sometimes depicted as dragons.

Eh, I guess I just wanted a method for Hazlik's plan to actually go through, a huge bang to bring Ravenloft back to WotC's product line by simultaneously doing a huge change to both Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft. I guess I really didn't know enough about FR to really join such a conversation, however...

I doubt they would wipe out the Red Wizards of Thay in order to re-introduce Ravenloft, espeically when they seem to be working to keep the setting from becoming completely interconnected.

Besides, I can't see Hazlik's plan working. It would break his curse and would bring the wrath of the entire Faerun Pantheon down on the Dark Powers. They were able to capture one Demigod and hold him for a while. Whatever they have that keeps the other Powers from interfereing, I doubt it would be enough if their Toy had major consequences for the Prime Material Plane.

Not to mention that, even if they DID opt to let a darklord get his jollies that way (and since when have the Dark Powers given darklords things they really wanted? ) it would be a heck of a lot safer for the DPs simply to let Hazlik believe he'd succeeded, rather than to actually permit his plan to come to fruition. It's not as if the little twerp can go to Thay and check on the outcome, after all....