Café de Nuit

Yes, the time for sequels is upon the Dungeons and Dragons community again. I was looking at the WotC website and it says we should expect Player's Handbook 2 next month. Here is the description:

"A follow-up to the Player’s Handbook designed to aid players and provide more character options.

The Player’s Handbook II builds upon existing materials in the Player’s Handbook. This is the first direct followup to the best-selling and most used D&D rulebook. It is specifically designed to expand the options available for players by both providing new material and increasing the uses for existing rules. Included are chapters on character race, background, classes, feats, spells, character creation, and character advancement. New rules include racial affiliations that make race matter as a character advances in level, new character classes and alternate class features for existing classes, new feats, tools for rapid character creation, and additional organization and teamwork benefits -- an option first introduced in Dungeon Master’s Guide II and Heroes of Battle."

As I recall, there were mixed feelings about DMG II. What do you guys think about this one?

I personally think its a transparent money grab and relfects very poorly upon wizards of the coast.

Ever since the original Phb came out, Wotc has bombarded the fans with more and more hardcover books to further "enhance" D&D. Most of these were specialized books - like Stormwrack, and Book of Vile Darkness, which were intended for speciality games. That was all fine and dandy, since it was no doubt helpful to people playing in those areas.

But now, this phb II is a shot at the big market - the lowest common denominator. This smack of a book that tires to do a million things and accomplishes zero.

I suspect that the book will contain few good points, and those few good points will be short and under developed.

Be ready for 4th edition! Now that they've run out of ideas, 4th is the only place to go.

I really have no intention to buy the PHB II. The first one is sufficient for me.

Besides, isn't the point of tabletop RPGs to encourage folks to branch out and use their imaginations? Seems to me that stuff like the DMGII and others of its ilk are nothing but minutae that provide an out for lazy folks who don't like to come up with their own stuff.

Wow, elitist much?
We don't need that book. We use our imaginations. We're better than that.

Of course it's a cash grab. Every book published in the history of publication has been a cash grab in that the hope was to make money. Would you rather WotC simply put out the 3 core books and simply vanished for a decade until they decided to reprint. Of course they're going to keep publishing book after book to make money and *gasp* put out more books.
If they didn't I'd be worried as publishers who don't put out books tend to go out of buisness.

This is the exact same type of book as all the Complete ____ and Races of ___ books. Some new options and varients, a few new feats and spells and some additions for people who don't have the time or skill to make the things themself. New rules for 'problems' that have come up over the past two years or big additions to the game too large to add into the other books.

Plus, many many groups rely on the official books over house rules. And official campaigns (like the RPGA) all but require new books as you can't pencil in house rules.

I'm viewing this like the expansion and update on the Hero Builder's Guidebook, generic advice and rules for new players who need the help while offering some number crunching advice to the more hardcore gamers.
There aren't alot of rules or advice on character backgrounds in the PHB, that book's pretty dominated by rules and the combat/magic sections. It'd be nice to have a PHB filled with advice on character creation and options.

Jester of the FoS wrote:Would you rather WotC simply put out the 3 core books and simply vanished for a decade until they decided to reprint.

If we wanted that, we could just play Gamma World instead...

Seriously though, I've nothing against this book, it just doesn't interest me in the slightest. I can only afford a new book ever few months, so I'll certainly save my money for any of the two dozen new books, or maybe the twice as many out-of-prints I'm tracking down for various collections.

At this point, when I buy new, it's because there's something amongst the info given that I just HAVE to read. Nothing I've heard about this one catches my interest that much. Maybe I'll browse through it in the shop, but that'd be about it.

Hey, now, I wasn't trying to be elitist. I've got nothing against books about races, or complete whatever...I just don't want more niggling little rules.

And they're perfectly entitled to make as many cash grabs as they like. If it keeps 'em producing good stuff, I ain't gonna complain. I just may not buy all of it.

Jester of the FoS wrote:Wow, elitist much?

[Drops monacle in horror]
Flimshaw and poppycock! I'm as plebian as the peasnt boy who shines my butler's maid's driver's shoes.

Seriously though, you must admit that it takes a whole lot of balls to name it "Players Handbook II."
The players handbook is supposed to the document for the game. Are they trying to say that they left out half the game for all these years?

WotC should be trying to develop tangents in the game. EX: a book on
- creating backgrounds for players and villians
- source books for historical cultures
- source books for fantasy cultures (steampunk, Magocracies, people who live in the elemental planes, ect...)

But instead of divergant thinking, we keep getting the rehashing of the same material. I mean come on! How many books are devoted specifically to arcane magic?

See, now, I'd *buy* a book on crafting villains, not just for the game but for my own use as a writer. Or any of those others. Especially the historical sources since 9 times out of 10 I'm too swamped with schoolwork/lazy to research on my own..

But yeah...a whole 'nother handbook...not so much.

You've bought the PHB2, the DMG2, and the MM2&3. Now buy the ultimate in D&D technology: THE PLAYER 2!

Can't find people to play your games? For only $49.95, we will deliver to your home your very own Player 2! Fill your friends with envy! What, you don't have any friends? No problem! The Player 2 is available in the following models: Rules Lawyer, Munchkin, Shy Nerdy Type, Goth-Wannabe, Pothead, and That Girl You Had A Crush On In High School But Kept Turning You Down Whenever You Asked Her Out On A Date.

Warning: Offer void where kidnapping, forced lobotomies, and human slavery are prohibited by law. Also, Texas.

The real problem I see with a PHB II is that if Monte Cook is to be believed there will be a 4th edition of D&D within the next two years.

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_los_155 (look at "The OGL and the Future")

A 4th edition? Good grief. I hope that remains a vicious rumor. I'm rather content with d20...

Heh. Heh. "Player 2." Heh.

There are times...

Wow, I haven't heard ANY speculation on 4th Edition before...
Especially since, in the very same rant, he says this about the decline of OGL sales:

And there's another reason as well. Wizards' release of 3.5 was a kick in the teeth for most d20 publishers, particularly those producing only material meant to directly support core d20 -- which is to say, D&D. Ironically, the ones Wizards hurt the hardest were the ones who were helping them the most. (And here's another secret: In the end, it was bad for Wizards' own long-term sales as well, as the sales of their own older products dried up. Their so-called "evergreen" titles -- the very ones that the OGL was created to help sustain -- stopped looking so green.) 3.5 was such a major revision that the buying public believed that 3.0 material was now useless to them (which is nonsense, but that's another topic). Lots of people threw up their hands and stopped buying much stuff. Oh, they bought the 3.5 core books, which reportedly sold well (but nowhere near 3.0 figures), but then they stopped buying. Or they bought only official D&D material.

He's also hardly sure about the matter himself as he repeatedly refers to the '08 date as a "wild guess" and peppers the sentances with conditional statements and disclaimers.

My guess is that in '07 or '08 we will see a reprint of the 3.5 books. An update with a fresh coat of paint. New covers and art, new expanded books, and clarified rules that reflect the changes and additions and problem solving of the last 3 years of 3.5.

PHBII.... Is it needed? No. Could it still be a very handy book, especially for new players or people looking for a quick idea or two? Yeah.
Keep in mind we're frequenting a campaign setting board. Campaign settings are the ultimate in redundant books becuase ANYONE can think up their own world. So why buy one? New ideas, different trains of thought and to save you some work.

Really, when you strip away all the hype and rules and clutter you don't even NEED to buy the PHB, let alone the DMG or MM or anything else with the D&D logo on it. You can make do with some looseleaf paper, some pencils and your imagination. You don't need dice or minis or even a table as the many MB RPGs demonstrate.

Have I bought DMG II? No. Why? I don't believe I need it. I won't buy it.

Have I bought MM III? No. Why? I need far many books more than I need this. Perhaps I'll buy it some day.

Will I buy PHB II? yes. Why? Am I a moron? No.
I just need a book that contains all the character options from the dozens of books. Some of the books I have, but it is a pain to carry with me when I travel back and forth and to try to remember "Was this feat in the races of Destiny? Complete Arcane? Or Unearthed Arcana"... Only to find out that it is in Libris Mortis or Frostburn .

I was praying for a book like Spell Compedium. One of the most useful books WotC has published IMO.

I was also praying for a book of FEATS, where all the feats from the Races of ___ and heroes of ___ and the monster races books and the terrain books were featured.

How DARE those coastly wizards try and make a living?!

It's not so much the earning the living, it's more the earning the living by ripping off players, by "recycling content".