Café de Nuit

I don't know if this has been discussed previously, but here goes:

A distinct Ravenloft rule states that ALL extradimensions MUST have a darklord. Then why don't oubliettes have any?

Wilful ignorance of that principle.

See Chris Nichlos's thoughts here:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/TheP ... jects.html

(Should make you think twice about sticking your hand into a bag of holding, doesn't it, especially after you have decapitate an innocent, and even more so if you put the decapitated head in the bag . . .)

[edited: added 'wilful']

[edited by gonzoron: corrected link]

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:A distinct Ravenloft rule states that ALL extradimensions MUST have a darklord. Then why don't oubliettes have any?

Hmmm... My thought? The oubliette is the lord of itself. ^_^

EDIT: Or maybe, it's own nature makes it too unstable to harbor a lord. As I imagine oubliettes, they are born as soon as someone HAS to go there, then they disappear as soon as that one exit them.
As with the Mists and the Dark Powers, they make a good DM tool. I only hoped they were not "statted" as happend in VRGttM.

I like the idea, that something might survive after the lord falls. I don't imagine they're populous, common or permanent but there something different.

I personally think that the authors of VRG Mists were trying to do something different and it worked. Rather than harping on "But that breaks the RULES!" we should remember that the whole darklord/domain concept is a plot device, a brilliant one, to allow us to have all the gothic cliches and tropes in one place so we an have a Horror Fantasy setting. That's it. It's not inviolate. It shouldn't be a straightjacket for creativity. If it makes for a good horror story, why not?

RLDMG explicitly states that the DP's are a plot device, which we all knew all along. If they want to make a small, temporary, isolated darklord-less domain, why the heck not? It's their playground, they decide how it forms, and if their grand experiment requires a proto-domain waiting for its lord, or a slow dissolve of a domain after its lord dies to keep the structure of the demiplane intact while they build a replacement, why not? It's not as if the concept of an Oubliette can't be reconciled with the "character" of the DPs (nebulous as that character is).

The rules have been broken before. When the Rd Box came out, no one said the new Borca showed ignorance of the rules. Two Darklords, impossible!! But it makes for a much more interesting story, so why not? The Nightmare Lands has multiple darklords too, and worse, can reach into other domains while people sleep. Impossible! Darklords can't enter other domains! But it works, it's a loophole, sure, but it's interesting. And it's one of the most acclaimed domains and supplements in the RL line. In fact, the idea of a darklord-less domain goes all the way back to the Black Box, it's mentioned as one "alleged" possibility for the then-undetailed Nightmare Lands.

I think everyone is jumping on a good concept over nothing.

Jester of the FoS wrote:I like the idea, that something might survive after the lord falls. I don't imagine they're populous, common or permanent but there something different.

Well make them the diffuse unconscious lingering malevolence of the fallen Darklord. His or her history should utterly colour, but at a deeply symbolic level, these domain remnants.

Another possibility...

Allowing a Darklord access to a "domain", like an oubliette, in the Mists may increase the likelihood that the individual Darklord will divine the secrets of the Mists themselves, pierce the protective planar boundaries of the Demiplane erected by the Dark Powers, and "escape" Ravenloft.

It's in the best interests of the Dark Powers to keep such knowledge to themselves. Thus, they will never allow a Darklord to rule over an oubliette.

Note that there has always been one extremely important geographic region in the Ravenloft setting that lacks a darklord: the Mists themselves. If the Mists can create and harbor Mistborn living creatures within their depths, why not small chunks of landscape, as well?

I always thought the mist-led creatures that return to such oubliette's are in fact variant darklords; albeit 'able' to leave such places though not of their will. Yeah, this is the only way I could ever justify their existence.