Café de Nuit

I present to you the case of a half-elven bard, let's call him 'A' for now. Having arrived in Kartakass from Faerun - through no particular fault of his own - he joins up with a group of adventurers for safety and adventure. Unfortunately, during the adventure in Kartakass, the party runs afoul of a werewolf. A, being an intrepid soul, tries to use his silver dagger, with the painful result of getting mauled. A survives, thanks to the party cleric, but at the next new moon, he finds he has a problem.
A has contracted the werewolf's condition and is now a lycanthrope.
Some enquiries at a local temple give A and his comrades the information they need to help him; they track down the 'bloodline''s primary werewolf, who is killed by A after they've trussed him up. (The DM does not say right out whether this constitutes a failed powers check on A's part, but don't count it out.) The group returns to the temple, where the local priestess begins the ritual to cure A - but at a crucial moment, it goes wrong. A fails his will save and transforms, mauling the priestess and probably infecting her before he is restrained. A is stuck with the beast within.
A hears about Duskpeace lodge in Verbrek and decides to head there and receive training as a Moonchild, as soon as he's gathered the necessary supplies, which he hopes to acquire in Richemulot. The party stands by him - stalwart fellows - and so it should not come as too much of a surprise that when adventure beckons, they answer: a little girl has been abducted into the sewers by a wererat who came up the water closet in the middle of the night. The party goes into the sewers, actually finds the girl, but then discovers it was all an ambush by the wererats for anyone bold enough to defy their rule. A tries to stick to the back, using bardic music and a rifle to support his comrades, who do surprisingly well. Alas, one of the wererats had the same idea and attacks A from behind, thinking him an easy mark. Pain and shock cause A to lose control and he turns werewolf, fighting his attacker tooth and claw until one of his comrades knocks him out. They drag him out of there, along with the girl, and all seems well. Until the next gibbous moon, when Bane discovers a second lycanthropic change in his 'arsenal'; he now carries wererat toxin in his veins as well.
A is getting pretty desperate to reach Duskpeace lodge. He's been saving up those Control shape ranks as best he can, but it's not enough by a long shot and he dislikes having to eat so much raw meat every day. The party agrees to head to Verbrek, but they need some money. They hire on as caravan guards for a merchant who's making a circuit of the 'rougher' countries, selling iron and steel tools and amenities for a handsome profit: Valachan - Verbrek - Tepest, with brief stops in Sithicus and Nova Vaasa. In Valachan, disaster strikes again. A has tried to hide his elven heritage, but a Black Leopard spots him when he's taking a brief dip in a lake and attacks him, hoping to earn a bounty on 'elf ears'. The resulting scuffle is mercifully brief, though A is shocked to have this seemingly random thug transform into a panther while he's drowning him and he gets clawed - again. (Powers check? Mayyybe ...) By the time they're ready to leave Valachan, A is feeling poorly. They've just entered Verbrek when he starts to convulse and his face changes, his skin darkening. So on top of everything else, now he's contracted werepanther disease as well ... (Curse you, DM! Curse you, dark powers!)

Game-technically, could this happen? Could someone contract various strains of lycanthropy? And if A does manage to make it to Duskpeace lodge and adopts the Moonchild prestige class, would he then be able to control all three strains of lycanthropy, or just one? And if he controls them, would he be able to meld all the attributes into one? And even more pressingly: if he becomes a 'natural lycanthrope' at the apex of the Moonchild class and it does allow him to control all aspects of his disease, would he then gain all the ability modifications? Would he pass on all three strains of infection if he uses a natural attack against an opponent?

The 3.5 SRD Lycanthrope template says:

“Lycanthrope” is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice.

and

The base creature’s type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype.

So as far as I can see, yes. There is nothing preventing someone from being infected three times, and, I might add, being hit by the +2 level adjustment for an infected lycanthrope three times. I keep feeling like there must be a caveat in there somewhere, but I sure can't find it if there is.

I don't have the VRGs before me, but no, it wouldn't work that way. I forget the precise details, but the VRGs made pretty clear that the putative lycanthrope had only one form, and that in the case of multiple infections, there's a certain precedence for which form and which triggers he actually takes.

I'm about 99% sure that you can't have both wererat and werewolf forms.

According to VRGtWerebeasts, a multiple-infected lycanthrope assumes the shape of the phenotype that most recently infected him or her. However, the transformation-trigger of the original strain is retained. For example, if the same PC is infected first by a werewolf that changes at the full moon, then by a wererat that changes after being wounded, the PC becomes a wererat who changes at full moon. Such a PC would pass on wererat-lycanthropy in his or her saliva, but with the full moon trigger rather than the usual one for the progenitor-wererat's bloodline.

In your triple-stacked scenario ( ), A would become a werewolf first, then a wererat with the werewolf's trigger. Adding the werepanther on top of that -- an event so unlikely, even Van Richten never thought of it! -- is anyone's guess, but a combination of traits is still the way to go. Perhaps A now has the werewolf's trigger, the wererat's animal form, and the werepanther's altered features and chemical bane?

Either way, it'd be necessary to erradicate all three progenitors before attempting a cure, if that were still an option. As for the Moonchild PrC, I'd personally let A's player choose which of his three phenotypes to seek mastery over, the same way a PrC that provides level-equivalent boosts to spellcasting requires that the character choose just one class's magic to improve upon. I'd also allow A to take the Moonchild class three times over, attaining mastery over a different phenotype each time.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:According to VRGtWerebeasts, a multiple-infected lycanthrope assumes the shape of the phenotype that most recently infected him or her. However, the transformation-trigger of the original strain is retained. For example, if the same PC is infected first by a werewolf that changes at the full moon, then by a wererat that changes after being wounded, the PC becomes a wererat who changes at full moon. Such a PC would pass on wererat-lycanthropy in his or her saliva, but with the full moon trigger rather than the usual one for the progenitor-wererat's bloodline.

In your triple-stacked scenario ( ), A would become a werewolf first, then a wererat with the werewolf's trigger. Adding the werepanther on top of that -- an event so unlikely, even Van Richten never thought of it! -- is anyone's guess, but a combination of traits is still the way to go. Perhaps A now has the werewolf's trigger, the wererat's animal form, and the werepanther's altered features and chemical bane?

Either way, it'd be necessary to erradicate all three progenitors before attempting a cure, if that were still an option. As for the Moonchild PrC, I'd personally let A's player choose which of his three phenotypes to seek mastery over, the same way a PrC that provides level-equivalent boosts to spellcasting requires that the character choose just one class's magic to improve upon. I'd also allow A to take the Moonchild class three times over, attaining mastery over a different phenotype each time.

But wouldn't that mean you'd have to gain those levels with the weight of +6 ECL crushing you down? And having to gain those levels three times to control all three would mean you'd be in epic ECL right quick. Sounds like a terrible price to pay for such a run of bad luck.

True, the PC would most likely have to settle for just a couple of levels of Moonchild for each phenotype, and make do with that. But, nobody said lycanthropy was easy, and giving a person who's that heavily-infected an escape-clause could permanently undermine the scariness of the dread disease. Really, A might be better served by trying to track down the Wishing Imp at this stage...

At least the LA and HD for phenotypes won't stack, in this scenario. The PC would receive only those of the phenotype he actually assumes the shape of, which is why I recommend that the wererat remain his assumed form, even after his encounter with the werepanther. Fewer HD to the base animal will allow slightly more wiggle-room for PrC progress.

I'd only add the level adjustment if I were adding the bonus hp to the infected character. For Ravenloft games where being a werewolf is alot harder to cure, I'd be hesitant to do that or add to the ECL.

Wasn't there an NPC somewhere who was infected with 2 strains? Boar and Bear iirc. I dimly recall a connection to the Kargat or Kargatane too.

Oh and technically the werepanther is special as in the template in Gaz IV it is noted that the afflicted can buy the improved control shape feat and
if the afflicted is beyond the borders of Valachan when he transforms he does not turn LE automatically:

If they retain their freedom past the first new moon, werepanthers can gain the Improved Control Shape feat without binding themselves to Von Kharkov by spending 100 XP.


ECL is a strange consideration esp. together with the Moonchild PrC which at 5th level buys of the +2 ECL. I'd probably disregard it completely and/or use savage progressions. Also I'd personally either let the different strains meld into a new one and this is the one that you have to master or get an ECL for or have lycanthropes immune to further affliction. (perhaps only true ones?)

This is a very interesting question that i have hit upon myself since developing the idea of a werepanther NPC and thinking about the relations between Valachani werepanthers and their Verbreker werewolf neighbors. Those border skirmishes would turn very weird very fast if they could infect each other...

P.S.: Note that there are some very useful articles on the wizards site which explain lycanthropy and show savage progressions for the lycanthrope template (i.e. how to take it as class levels):
Gaining a template in midcampaign (includes Vampire savage progression)
Ghost and Werewolf
Fiendish and werebear
Half-dragon and wererat

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:... it'd be necessary to erradicate all three progenitors before attempting a cure, if that were still an option. As for the Moonchild PrC, I'd personally let A's player choose which of his three phenotypes to seek mastery over, the same way a PrC that provides level-equivalent boosts to spellcasting requires that the character choose just one class's magic to improve upon. I'd also allow A to take the Moonchild class three times over, attaining mastery over a different phenotype each time.

Since A already failed his one shot at a ritual cure, magical healing's not much of an option - unless he finds an Alchemical Philosopher and somehow manages to have an Enlightened Child body grown for himself, which is clear of lycanthropy ... *cough*
I have only one problem with what you said about the Moonchild class: you get Improved Control Shape as a bonus feat at its apex, with no alignment shift necessary. Wouldn't that trump all lycanthropic troubles?

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Really, A might be better served by trying to track down the Wishing Imp at this stage...

Ohh, ha ha ha ha haaaI don't think so. ^^; I read all about that critter at the old Kargatane website, even before I got the Ravenloft dungeon master guide. Really, if any of my characters ever runs across the ole wishing imp, I think he'll try and chuck it into the Shadow Rift.

Rock wrote:

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Really, A might be better served by trying to track down the Wishing Imp at this stage...

Ohh, ha ha ha ha haaaI don't think so. ^^; I read all about that critter at the old Kargatane website, even before I got the Ravenloft dungeon master guide. Really, if any of my characters ever runs across the ole wishing imp, I think he'll try and chuck it into the Shadow Rift.

Heh, and if A has a DM cruel enough to hook him with three separate strains of lycanthropy, I can only imagine what kind of sadistic imagination he/she could come up with for the Wishing Imp!

I'm not sure if an infected lycanthrope can be reinfected or not-but i'm pretty sure it's too much of a headache to bother with. Besides, IMO it sort of cheapens the horror of a monstrous, demonic alter-ego you can't control-piling extra monsters in after that is just guilding the lily. It's like a Wizard having extra familiars("yes, it's a bee swarm, do you have a problem with that?").

If an infected Lycanthrope gets reinfected, I might consider:

Keeping the first form but gaining the attacker's trigger and losing the original one.
Keeping the first form but possibly gaining the attacker's weakness and dropping one of the original ones.

This would keep that aforementioned Border War pretty interesting without tearing up the scorecard entirely.


On the other hand, you could get REALLY weird with this-
Every time a trigger in this poor half-elf occurs, roll a D4:

1) Rat
2) Wolf
3) Panther
4) The Inner Demons are too busy ripping each other to bits in your psyche to manifest...stay in control but be Shaken for 1D4 rounds.

Eventually, a new Ritual Cure might be found-one that exposes the half-elf to ALL his triggers at one while in multiple containment circles. The additional magics cause the afflicted half-elf to twist, pulse and melt-until all three Dire Beast Abberations(representing the Lycanthropic Demons) burst free and begin tearing at everything in sight-including each other and thier former host! In this form the Curses cannot spread, so if the half-elf's companions dissolve the circle and manage to slaughter the vile things, the half-elf is finally, FINALLY FREE!!! In fact, the DM may wish to be generous and give him a bonus Ability for all his sufferings(and loss of a Prestige Class)-perhaps he is now immune to Lycanthropy forever, or he may attempt to Turn Lycanthropes as a Cleric turns Undead, or perhaps his understanding allows him to Command beasts as a Druid...

Speaking of multi-infection: How would you rule/adapt a Lythari (benign elven wolf-shapechanger) in Ravenloft? Can a half-elf be one? What if said half-elf was an afflicted werewolf? Could a lythari bite (or transformation ritual) actually help him?

Much like werebears are no longer Neutral Good, I have a feeling that the lythari would be quite a bit less benevolent in Ravenloft.

I imagine them haunting the Sithican woods, and taking poorly to non-elven intruders.

Or hunting half-elf "embarrasments" to whatever ancient elvin family first bound them. It could work sort of like Dread Companions.

I'd let Improved Control Shape work for all, simply because the only other alternative is death...